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Medieval Spain Alfonso Xi, Noven, Variety?

 
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New Member

United States
9 Posts
 Posted 11/30/2020  12:16 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add numsrs to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
I have not personally seen the CRESCENT and X indicated by the RED arrows on the reverse of the coin below (see digital images), or any other billon medieval coins from Spain of the period 718-1400 AD. Have others noticed these or similar marks on the coins of the period 718-1400 AD in their collections, or elsewhere? Are these marks related to an engraver, mintmaster, both or..? Any ideas, comments or thoughts most welcome.

17mm
0.74 g.
Billon


Burgos Mint



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Bedrock of the Community
Australia
17914 Posts
 Posted 11/30/2020  5:23 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
numsrs: to the CCF !

Love to know which country you live.
What is your main area of interest in numismatics?
Would love to learn from you in your specialist area of knowledge.

Although I collect World coins covering from ancient to modern, my lack of specialist knowledge cannot help.
In this case unfortunately, I am a generalist, not a specialist, despite the fact that I have been an active collector for more than 50 years.

I hope you get an answer because I am also very interested to find out.
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United States
9 Posts
 Posted 11/30/2020  7:49 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add numsrs to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Many thanks for the welcome. Am a coin, token & medal collector for 50 years, originally in New York...for the last 22 years in south Florida. I am a generalist too. Collect world-wide; ancients, medieval, foreign, US from all periods and continents...This coin has been in the collection for 40 years and am trying to fully attribute it. My Caston & Cayon from 1979 is not enough. Thought to get help from The Coin Community Family. Trust I may be able to participate for some time yet.
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United States
1543 Posts
 Posted 11/30/2020  7:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Gincoin43 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm not 100% I understand what you are after but the Liuvigild imitations often have crescents

http://www.coinproject.com/search_e...sues&type=16

The coins with that weird human headed lion also often have crescents, there is one pictured in the link below somewhere.
http://www.hubert-herald.nl/EspanCastileLeon.htm

There are others too.

I don't think the other symbol is an "x" but maybe I'm wrong.
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United States
9 Posts
 Posted 11/30/2020  11:03 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add numsrs to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you for the links. The crescent as a design element is clearly shown in the links. The crescent does not appear to be a design element in the doubled square enclosed lion of the novens of Alfonso XI. A basin (looks like a crescent) is used as a mintmark of the coins of Cuena. However, this mintmark appears under the castle on the obverse of the coin not near or under the lion of the reverse. In addition the crescent and the X do not appear on any of the previous Alfonsos.

My guess is these marks indicate a new or unlisted type in the Alfonso XI series. My reference is likely out of date after 41 years. A specialist in the medieval Spain series might be familiar with the current scholarship. This new scholarship might have found new types for Alfonso XI, one of which might be the coin in hand. If so, I will have a reference with, it is hoped, a reference number to fully attribute the coin...my ultimate goal.
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United States
9 Posts
 Posted 12/01/2020  01:24 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add numsrs to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Many thanks GinCoin43. The coin in the link is an exact match to my own, though, a half a grade to a grade better. The description of the lot contains what appears to be a reference number (AB. 355.4). If I am able to track the number to a standard reference for the series, I may be able to gain additional information about the coin. Or, as indicated in the previous links, the marks may prove to be design elements for decorative purposes. Thanks again. I can finally put this one to bed.
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 Posted 12/01/2020  01:59 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Gincoin43 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I don't know what they are refencing but I'm sure it will be in Spanish. The entry will probably read: "Flor de 6 pétalos delante del león y sobre él creciente hacia arriba".
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551 Posts
 Posted 12/01/2020  04:11 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add erafjel to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have only French medievals, and there small signs like these are marks of mint masters, sometimes engravers. Typically they are found embedded in the inscription though, not in the design fields.

The reference AB should be Alvarez Burgos: Catálogo general de la Moneda medieval Castellano-Leonesa, siglos XI-XV.
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United States
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 Posted 12/01/2020  08:47 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add numsrs to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Maybe not flower petals but surely something similar...Thanks erafjel, now I not only have the reference number, but the reference itself. Thank you members, I am most grateful.
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