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Confused About Nz Proof Silver Dollars

 
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Author Previous TopicReplies: 13 / Views: 307Next Topic  
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United States
385 Posts
 Posted 02/22/2021  3:06 pm Show Profile   Check Lancek's eBay Listings Bookmark this topic Add Lancek to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
According to my Krause world catalog, the NZ 80s dollars that I got should weigh 27.22g for silver proofs, and 28.28g for MS CuNi. Seems weird that the silver should weigh less.

Bought a '78, 80, and two 83s. Only paid $5 each. Look to be artificially toned so hard to tell if proofs just from looking. Weighed 27.04, 26.95, 27.28 One that I can't weigh as it's in a slab. But the TPG said it was 26.25. I do remember one being a little more out of tolerance. But not a whole gram. They also feel that 27.22 is the correct weight for silver. So they don't think this one is.

At a different online auction, I bought a '83 coin set. Pics weren't good enough to tell if mint or proof, but it went cheap so I took a chance. Mint set, no silver. Got mad, threw it in the safe, and kind of forgot about it.

But with all the wieight issues with the TPG I remembered and pulled it out. That says very clearly that the copper nickel dollar in that set weighs 27.216g. Which makes my Krause catalog wrong, and the TPG wrong. And I have no idea what my 26.25 coin is.

So can anybody help me out.

At least the TPG was able to remove the artificial toning.
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Australia
557 Posts
 Posted 02/22/2021  3:46 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add David Graham to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Princetane is the Kiwi coinage guru so sure he'll be able to help.
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 Posted 02/22/2021  4:42 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add norantyki to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Krause sometimes gets it wrong, simple as. Not my field of expertise though, and agreed, we can wait for the likes Princetane or sel_69l to weigh in here ;)
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Australia
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 Posted 02/22/2021  5:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Princetane is your man for this one.
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New Zealand
2230 Posts
 Posted 02/22/2021  6:56 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Princetane to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I need to see some photos as there is a huge difference between Proof and Uncirculated.

Uncirculated dollars come in slabs like this



Cupronickel and weight is 27.22grams

Proof coins come in ringboxes like this


Silver .925 and 28 grams

I am not even certain of the exact weight as the silver is based on the old crown standard of 420 grains 28.26grams, but the 50 cent and $1 coins of 1967 were slightly lighter (13.50 - 13.62 grams and 27 - 27.24grams)

Also bear in mind Proof dollars have a polished appearance after 1971 with cameoing. An Uncirculated coin is merely shiny pocket change.

And finally Proof dollars from 1967, 1969 - 1976 are not silver but cupronickel. 1977 onwards are, the only exception is the PROOF 1974 Games Dollar which was silver.

If you paid $5 per Uncirculated dollar, then its actually a slight rip off. If they are silver proofs you did well.

I would also check my Decimal coins thread, it is still on Page 1 here.
Loving Halfcrowns. British and Commonwealth coins 1750 - 1950 and anything Kiwi.
If it's round, shiny and silvery I will love it.
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New Zealand
2230 Posts
 Posted 02/22/2021  6:59 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Princetane to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Uncirculated sets look like this to 1990


This is 1969, 80s ones often had brightly coloured covers and theme of the dollar - but essentially looked the same

Proof sets looked like this to 1989


Although this is 1976 and a cupro nickel dollar. 1977 ones had silver dollars, but all other coins were base metal.

Loving Halfcrowns. British and Commonwealth coins 1750 - 1950 and anything Kiwi.
If it's round, shiny and silvery I will love it.
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 Posted 02/22/2021  7:32 pm  Show Profile   Check Lancek's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Lancek to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yeah, they were all in those plastic holders, not the boxes. Oh well. Still cool coins. Especially the coinage anniversary one. Love coins on coins. Do I tell Krause they're wrong, or is that an impossible task?
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 Posted 02/23/2021  01:27 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add norantyki to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@Lancek - although they used to make amendments, from what I understand, they have been sold to new publishers who care substantially less about content. You can always try shooting the editor a note (doesn't hurt), but whether or not they do something is another question altogether.

The Krause cat, although imperfect, is a really good general ref., and represents such an ambitious undertaking that I doubt it will ever be problem free. My suggestion is to get specialized catalogs relating to the countries that you are most interested in. There are always 'domestically produced' references which will be much more detailed than a general cat - perhaps Princetane can advise what this is for NZ (as I said, not my field).
Edited by norantyki
02/23/2021 01:28 am
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New Zealand
2230 Posts
 Posted 02/24/2021  01:01 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Princetane to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Please again, I advise you to read my threads, they do not take long and contain all this information.

I don't use Krause as its not available in NZ, those things are like Telephone books. We could get them in the 80s and 90s at big libraries, but ever since theys tarted doing those century catalogues, they became too expensive and most libraries don't stock them now.

For the last time I use the John Bertrand standard catalogue of NZ coins and tokens, it is published every year and costs about $20. It is a small one but very useful.

A great author here called Robert Pepping has written an excellent book about Predecimal coins and I believe he may be working on a decimal volume. But otherwise the last scholarly work on NZ coins dates from 1981 and is WAAYYY out of print.

Still a few years and the scale of literature just may improve as modern NZ collectible coins have generated a lot more interest since the LOTR issues and the recent gold and silver Maori theme coins!
Loving Halfcrowns. British and Commonwealth coins 1750 - 1950 and anything Kiwi.
If it's round, shiny and silvery I will love it.
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United States
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 Posted 02/25/2021  02:00 am  Show Profile   Check Lancek's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Lancek to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
My world coin interest is VERY broad. Not practical to track down something from every country I buy form. Normally looking for bargains, and I find, in the US, those are more readily available with worlds. At least in the middle of the country where I live.

These were a rare loser for me. I've picked up lots of world silver that other bidders didn't know was silver.

From this same seller, I bought a coin they had listed as "German medal". It said 20 marks on it. I made the assumption, that like the US, if a denomination is mentioned, its a coin. But I spent hours trying to find it in Krause, or on NGCs site. Finally looked in East Germany. There it was. Martin Luther commem. Turns out, after minting, the communist party tried to destroy most of them. Someone realized, if they were suppressing religion, Martin Luther may not have been a good choice.

Very rare. Bought it for $10, sold it to my LCS for $200. They had it graded and priced it at $400. Over the year my winners have far outweighed my losers.

But I'm not really in it for the money. I just love having a very eclectic world wide collection. But if I can turn a profit on a few, and use the proceeds to buy more, I'm happy.

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 Posted 02/25/2021  11:18 am  Show Profile   Check Lancek's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Lancek to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
As far as New Zealand coins, I recently picked up a 1941 Sixpence for $10 USD on Ebay. Came back graded AU53 (Sheldon). If my research is correct that's a key day. Neither NGC's world coin price guide nor Krause list an AU value. NGC has XF at $120 USD and MS 60 at $250. My Krause catalog (which is a few years older) has the XF at $50 and the MS at $90. Weird that the discrepancy is that wide. Since NGC populates its guide from Krause data. But I find WAY more errors on NGC's site.
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Australia
557 Posts
 Posted 02/25/2021  6:49 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add David Graham to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:

From this same seller, I bought a coin they had listed as "German medal". It said 20 marks on it. I made the assumption, that like the US, if a denomination is mentioned, its a coin. But I spent hours trying to find it in Krause, or on NGCs site. Finally looked in East Germany.
Very rare. Bought it for $10, sold it to my LCS for $200. They had it graded and priced it at $400.

Love those stories. Misidentified coins on Ebay can be nice finds.
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New Zealand
2230 Posts
 Posted 03/02/2021  7:16 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Princetane to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
New Zealand coins do not reach the estortionate prices overseas they do here and to a lesser degree in the UK.

Most Predecimal silver (1933 - 1946) can be had for not much over melt value in Good to gVG condition. Fine or better it goes up exponentially, but with the exception of the rare items like 1935 6d, 1936 and 1944 Florins and 1944 Halfcrowns, even VF coins seldom cost more than 4- 5 melt. Common dates you can find near EF pieces cheaply as I have discovered.

The reason, is after the coin bubble of the 80s, dealers here simplified their coin holdings into 4 grades - UNC/BU (Seldom seen on pre 1950 coins), AU (Usually the best available for most dates) and EF (The usual stunners) and then Average. In the the 80s and before Average was Fine down to Good, but now a lot of VF and gVF coins were thrown into average and thus many much better coins were bought up cheap.

However by 2010, the catalogues starting readding VF as a grade and VF coins started to attract a premium over average again. Although they are still cheap next to EF and higher.

All Prices in NZ dollars not USD

Examples 1935 Shilling, Avg - 6, VF - 35, EF 110, AU 350, UNC 750
1945 Shilling, Avg - 6, VF - 18, EF 50, AU - 75, UNC - 225

In both cases I paid around $20 or $30 for a high VF example.

I would say your AU53 6d would likely grade a high VF/low EF here and it is know American grading is very liberal next to British/Antipodean standards.
Loving Halfcrowns. British and Commonwealth coins 1750 - 1950 and anything Kiwi.
If it's round, shiny and silvery I will love it.
Pillar of the Community
New Zealand
2230 Posts
 Posted 03/04/2021  01:34 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Princetane to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Just found out, some of the 27.22 grams coins versus the 28.40 grams one, was they thinned the thickness of the coins somewhat.

The 28.6 or 28.4 gram coins are 2.1mm thick (0.0805in) and 27.22 coins are 2.01mm thick (0.0797in) thick, but diameter remains the same!
Loving Halfcrowns. British and Commonwealth coins 1750 - 1950 and anything Kiwi.
If it's round, shiny and silvery I will love it.
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