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Attica Athens Tetradrachm, Genuine Or Fake? Type?

 
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Author Previous TopicReplies: 12 / Views: 429Next Topic  
New Member

Netherlands
1 Posts
 Posted 10/19/2021  06:41 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Jan Koevoets to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
I am a professional numismatist from the Netherlands, but I don't specialize in ancient coins. This tetradrachm has been in my container 'authentic?' for a while. Maybe the community can help me out.

the Weight is 16.872 grams and the diameter is 24mm.

It definitely looks struck, not cast.

The obverse is turned 90 degrees.

Any and all thoughts on authenticity, type and/or catalog references would be highly appreciated.





Pillar of the Community
Canada
4321 Posts
 Posted 10/19/2021  07:50 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add oriole to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
to the CCF!

If real, it is an excellent example with near perfect centering. We have a lot of very knowledgable people year, so expect a reply very soon.

I have a modest knowledge of ancients, and from the picture nothing seems obviously wrong.
Bedrock of the Community
United States
41950 Posts
 Posted 10/19/2021  07:57 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add John1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
( I'm no pro, it's just my humble opinion )
Searched 6.5 +/- Million Cents Since 1971
Bedrock of the Community
Australia
19262 Posts
 Posted 10/19/2021  09:19 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If fake, then excellent. If any doubts,
Need to compare on the various data bases for fake ancient coins for this one.
Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
1839 Posts
 Posted 10/19/2021  09:49 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add maridvnvm to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This is far from my area of expertise but I will share my opinion.

The helmet is plain and crest here seems to be attached by a zigzag band. These are attributes of what is referred to as the Archaic issues dating to c. 500 B.C. The style of the bust however is not consistent with the style of engraving of these archaic issues. The style of the bust seems much more akin to the Classic issues with the almond eye though the eye here is not large enough not almond shaped enough to be consistent with those issues. The later, transitional issues have a profile eye.

I think that this is a modern, fantasy piece attempting to capture some of the elements of an archaic issue but combining the style of some of the later issues.

I am happy for anyone to disagree with the above as it is the opinion of someone who has only dabbled with Athenian Owl coins.

Regards,
Martin
Valued Member
United Kingdom
144 Posts
 Posted 10/19/2021  10:05 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JohnConduitt to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I know very little about these (although I do own one) but the obverse looks too good to be true. Usually, Athena is too large for the flan and so either her nose or the crest are off-flan, at least a little. On this coin, Athena is the perfect size with room to spare.

Also, Athena's face looks a bit sunken, the crest is plain (so archaic, while Athena looks later) and the flan is also a bit strange - quite round but not neatly so on one side.

See examples here: https://www.coinarchives.com/a/resu...&results=100

Having said that, there are vast numbers of varieties, official and unofficial, struck over 100+ years at central and provincial mints, so it takes a real expert to rule a coin out on style alone.
Edited by JohnConduitt
10/19/2021 10:06 am
Valued Member
United Kingdom
144 Posts
 Posted 10/19/2021  10:07 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JohnConduitt to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
The helmet is plain and crest here seems to be attached by a zigzag band. These are attributes of what is referred to as the Archaic issues dating to c. 500 B.C. The style of the bust however is not consistent with the style of engraving of these archaic issues.


Sorry, my post overlapped. But our non-expert opinions are very similar!

Another consideration - if it cost less than $1000, it probably isn't real.
Edited by JohnConduitt
10/19/2021 10:14 am
New Member
Albania
1 Posts
 Posted 11/12/2021  8:09 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mirmidonian to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
After hundreds of fakes Athena tetradrachms listed at prestigious auctions, glad to see at last a good piece.
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United States
23633 Posts
 Posted 11/12/2021  8:42 pm  Show Profile   Check echizento's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add echizento to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
To the community

If it's fake it's a well struck one. I don't see any signs of casting. IMO it's genuine.
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United States
106502 Posts
Valued Member
Canada
264 Posts
 Posted 11/15/2021  3:23 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add arnoldoe to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It's an obvious fake..
Pillar of the Community
United States
6102 Posts
 Posted 11/17/2021  11:21 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Finn235 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
With a perfect strike, perfect centering, everything on the flan *AND* being in late archaic/transitional style, that's either a 5-6 figure coin, or a tourist copy.

It's a tourist copy.
My Collections:
Roman Imperial
http://goccf.com/t/348979
Japan Type set Tokugawa + Modern
http://goccf.com/t/348999
Indo Sassanian
http://goccf.com/t/322087
Valued Member
United States
275 Posts
 Posted 11/23/2021  10:53 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add livingwater to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
As others said the style is of the period about 500-480 BC. These are scarce and few examples exist in VF+ condition. My opinion is it's modern not ancient. You could send it to NGC or David Sear for authentification. If genuine it's a superb example worth a lot but I doubt it. I wouldn't buy it unless it's been examined by experts. See:

1. acsearch.info
2. Forgery Network
3. Forum Ancient Coins fake coins listings.
Edited by livingwater
11/23/2021 11:00 am
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