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1967 Canadian Dollar DDO?

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Pillar of the Community

Canada
2100 Posts
 Posted 11/23/2021  07:55 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Wrekkdd to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
My scope died before I could get more photos but it seems like split serifs to me, before I post a bunch of photos I figured I'd see what people say, there is many more splits in the legand. Before my scope died I took one quick picture. What do you guys think? I will get more pics tonight if you think it could be a doubled die.




Got a few more photos






Edited by Wrekkdd
11/23/2021 08:20 am
Pillar of the Community
Canada
2100 Posts
 Posted 11/23/2021  4:38 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Wrekkdd to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
No thoughts on this one yet? It has the appearance of a doubled die to me but I can't find anything about a doubled die for the 67 dollar. I do see MD on the coin but the splits seem fairly obvious to me unless I'm missing something?
Edited by Wrekkdd
11/23/2021 4:39 pm
Valued Member
Canada
424 Posts
 Posted 11/23/2021  4:49 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coinman91 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I see the split serifs. Was hoping johnwayne could let us know.
There's always two sides to the coin if you have the patience to see. -Kathryn Budig
Pillar of the Community
Canada
2100 Posts
 Posted 11/23/2021  5:39 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Wrekkdd to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Unfortunately I am "shunned" from the Canadian collectors on this forum. Johnwayn007 has been offline all day from what I have seen. He is most likely busy with his book as it is supposed to be published very soon. I wouldn't doubt he has already seen this one before, but as I can't find any info online about it u figured I'd get clarification. As I have never found a nice doubled die before. Hopefully he will have some time to stop by eventually.

Edit:shunned by the veterans** not the whole forum.
Edited by Wrekkdd
11/23/2021 5:55 pm
Pillar of the Community
Canada
2100 Posts
 Posted 11/24/2021  2:27 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Wrekkdd to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Guess this one is a waiting game for the Doubled die expert:) the strike jitter on some of the legand and MD made me question this one but after looking at it over and over I am almost positive it's a doubled die. The H is what stands out the most for me,the bottom of the Is and top of the R I see the splits as well. I'm skeptical as it is the first 67 dollar I have purchased and with others looking(especially at this year) that if there was a doubled die for this year it would have already been discovered. Guess I'll have to wait and see.
Pillar of the Community
Canada
1076 Posts
 Posted 11/24/2021  3:11 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JohnWayne007 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
More photos would be needed, specifically the two "E" letters and the letter "Z" in Elizabeth.

Doubled dies from the 60s are tricky to determine on larger denominations since most feature master die doubling to some extent, the "R" in the photos provided is familiar in this instance.

I have not searched many 1967 dollars in particular, but I do know that the half dollar and the nickel for 1967 both have master die doubling present and I would not be overly surprised if the dollar did as well.
Searching Canadian Small Cents daily since 2018.

Some of my Discoveries.
1941 Georgivs VI 1 Cent DDO http://goccf.com/t/367977
1951 Georgivs VI 1 Cent DDO Type 2 http://goccf.com/t/363635
1976 Queen Elizabeth II 1 Cent DDO Type 1 http://goccf.com/t/373627
1976 Queen Elizabeth II 1 Cent DDO Type 2 http://goccf.com/t/408163
1989 Belize 25 Cent's DDR http://goccf.com/t/362747
Pillar of the Community
Canada
2100 Posts
 Posted 11/24/2021  3:25 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Wrekkdd to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Sure I'll post the E's and Z. I stayed away from them as doubling is not obvious and they have MD




What do you think?

Edit: my mother in law has 4-5 67 sets I could check for the same doubling next time I'm over there to see if it is master hub doubling. Master hub doubling would show on all of the 67 dollars right? She only has 2 sets like this one I think. The others are in a box with blue velvet if I remember correctly.
Edited by Wrekkdd
11/24/2021 4:21 pm
Valued Member
Canada
424 Posts
 Posted 11/24/2021  4:37 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coinman91 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I agree those letters seem to show some Machine Doubling. If many 60s coins show master hub doubling at which point do they carry a premium? The split serifs here are enough for myself to question it being MD for the entire coin.
There's always two sides to the coin if you have the patience to see. -Kathryn Budig
Edited by coinman91
11/24/2021 4:38 pm
Pillar of the Community
Canada
2100 Posts
 Posted 11/24/2021  5:19 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Wrekkdd to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If it's master hub doubling then the doubling would not be anything special as all working hubs would have the same doubling. There could be some with MD or Die Deterioration as well but the doubled die would be apparent on every 1967 dollar. If I had another one on hand it would be an easy check. The bottom right of the H is enlarged with a split serif. If anyone has a dollar without that it would not be master hub doubling. I have never though about it but I guess even with master hub doubling there could be a doubled die from a working hub as well even on master die doubling.

As this is the first 67 dollar I have looked at and have on hand I cannot judge this.
Pillar of the Community
Canada
1076 Posts
 Posted 11/24/2021  6:23 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JohnWayne007 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
You will have to check some more 67's and see if they exhibit the same doubling, if they do then they would be considered as common master die doubling and would be found on virtually every 1967 dollar that was struck unless two master dies were used, that info I do not know until I take my trip to the Bank of Canada Museum when they are open so that I can conduct research for Volume two of my book.

There are doubled devices, but finding out if it happened during the creation of the Master die, or Working die is what you will have to do next, I do have a feeling this is normal though as the 1966 Dollar also features a similar form of doubling.
Searching Canadian Small Cents daily since 2018.

Some of my Discoveries.
1941 Georgivs VI 1 Cent DDO http://goccf.com/t/367977
1951 Georgivs VI 1 Cent DDO Type 2 http://goccf.com/t/363635
1976 Queen Elizabeth II 1 Cent DDO Type 1 http://goccf.com/t/373627
1976 Queen Elizabeth II 1 Cent DDO Type 2 http://goccf.com/t/408163
1989 Belize 25 Cent's DDR http://goccf.com/t/362747
Edited by JohnWayne007
11/24/2021 6:27 pm
Pillar of the Community
Canada
1076 Posts
 Posted 11/24/2021  6:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JohnWayne007 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
coinman91,

Master die doubling even on the highest of grades will not get any type of recognition when it comes to premiums, the 2006 nickel for example has one of the most severe forms of what would have been a massive doubled die, if it had happened during the creation of the working die, but instead, it happened during the creation of the Master die, resulting in every 2006 nickel minted showing master die doubling.
Searching Canadian Small Cents daily since 2018.

Some of my Discoveries.
1941 Georgivs VI 1 Cent DDO http://goccf.com/t/367977
1951 Georgivs VI 1 Cent DDO Type 2 http://goccf.com/t/363635
1976 Queen Elizabeth II 1 Cent DDO Type 1 http://goccf.com/t/373627
1976 Queen Elizabeth II 1 Cent DDO Type 2 http://goccf.com/t/408163
1989 Belize 25 Cent's DDR http://goccf.com/t/362747
Pillar of the Community
Canada
2100 Posts
 Posted 11/24/2021  6:44 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Wrekkdd to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
So if this is a master die doubling then all it would take to confirm it is not is one other 67 without the same doubling? And if there is others out there without the same master hub doubling then this would still be considered a variety correct?
Pillar of the Community
Canada
1076 Posts
 Posted 11/24/2021  7:14 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JohnWayne007 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Wrekkdd,

In a sense yes, it could be considered a variety if two master dies are different but I dont think it would ever see a premium or full recognition as one, we are talking about master die doubling being present on 3+ million 1967 dollars from a 6+ million mintage.
Searching Canadian Small Cents daily since 2018.

Some of my Discoveries.
1941 Georgivs VI 1 Cent DDO http://goccf.com/t/367977
1951 Georgivs VI 1 Cent DDO Type 2 http://goccf.com/t/363635
1976 Queen Elizabeth II 1 Cent DDO Type 1 http://goccf.com/t/373627
1976 Queen Elizabeth II 1 Cent DDO Type 2 http://goccf.com/t/408163
1989 Belize 25 Cent's DDR http://goccf.com/t/362747
Pillar of the Community
Canada
2100 Posts
 Posted 11/24/2021  7:14 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Wrekkdd to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm not on a budget to just buy 1967 dollars to research as every piece I buy will not be going to me,with the odd exception(none yet)

I feel you might know something I don't about this, hopefully in the book. If not I'll probably know before volume 2. I'll check my in laws as soon as I get a chance.
Pillar of the Community
Canada
2100 Posts
 Posted 11/24/2021  7:30 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Wrekkdd to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Also the amount of coins doubled would depend on when the error was noticed. Meaning it could be the most common variety or a scarce one.

If it's a question you can't answer then it's out of my league.
Pillar of the Community
Canada
2100 Posts
 Posted 11/24/2021  8:13 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Wrekkdd to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
So simple looking at coins and Canada and the images of the doubled legend I can say if it's master hub doubling it's not the same as the images they have of MD on the legend. So at least a minor variety but possibly an actual DDO.
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