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 Replies: 40 / Views: 4,187 |
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
1353 Posts |
Not my series at all, Levaril, but with that much chatter I would say 63.
http://www.victoriancent.com2011 & 2025 Fred Bowman Literary Award Winner, 2020 J. Douglas Ferguson Award Winner, & 2022 Paul Fiocca Award Winner. Life Member of RCNA.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1353 Posts |
To follow on to the previous 1908 specimen posts, here is the ICCS 67/PCGS 64. If there is a finer 1908 specimen cent, I have not seen it. Ex. Cornerstone. It speaks to the differences between the two grading services. PCGS does not appreciate the matte style finish. (PS - It is much redder than the Truviews show.)  http://www.victoriancent.com2011 & 2025 Fred Bowman Literary Award Winner, 2020 J. Douglas Ferguson Award Winner, & 2022 Paul Fiocca Award Winner. Life Member of RCNA.
Edited by bosox
01/24/2022 10:18 pm
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Pillar of the Community
 Canada
1081 Posts |
I think the upshot, reading through all of this, is that when you're buying you should look as closely as possible at the coin with full awareness of what the various TPG do. When you're selling, PCGS will make a difference with some buyers but others will prefer ICCS. So... don't worry about it.... |
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Valued Member
Canada
289 Posts |
Quote:
Not my series at all, Levaril, but with that much chatter I would say 63. A very reasonable guess. I would have guessed 63-64 myself. It's pretty obviously quite beat up. I'm sure you already guessed, but that's not too close to the grade they gave it.  Pretty astounding to me. I would say this is an extreme example though. Typically I find that they are about 1 grade number too high. At 65 and higher grades though this can be a lot of money! |
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Valued Member
Canada
289 Posts |
One thing I would take out of all this is that you need to figure out what matters to you. Do you like slabs or flips? Do you expect to some day sell in Canada or the US? Which service might ultimately maximize your return when you do go to sell. Do you participate in anything like the PCGS Set Registry and want to be able to use a coin in that? Difficulty of getting a service done is a component. Typically the US services are slower and more difficult to get done. They are also more expensive generally. You also want to consider what it means to have things going across the border and back. The potential risk of loss or theft in transit should also be a consideration. Many things to consider!
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2495 Posts |
If you intend to be buried with your coins (literally 'buried'), then PCGS absolutely is the best due to very good grading standards and a very secure hard slab holder. If you intend to sell them, then ICCS. Let's not talk about the 'uncommon' SP coins, ultra high grades, I'm talking about fairly common, yet valuable coins such as 1941 ms65 5c, 1938 ms65 25c, 1948 ms64 10c. Go check the prices realized for these in a PCGS slab vs. an ICCS holder and you'll see a very big gap. Now, it you're talking about an ms66 Victorian half, then I'm not the one to give opinions, because those coins are way beyond me (as I've never bought nor sold one). But I've been buying and selling on ebay (coins from $10 to $2500) since 1998 and I have seen what the 'common' coin gets and if you want to maximise your return, stick with ICCS. Edited by doubleeagle59
01/25/2022 1:37 pm
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Valued Member
Canada
289 Posts |
I use ICCS quite a bit for the appropriate coins myself. I'm not trying to bash them, they fill a very useful niche in Canadian coin collecting for sure. Let me tell you though why I won't buy an ICCS graded coin unless I can either see it in hand or have someone that I trust take a look at it for me. I've mentioned the variability in the grading, and that is a consideration, but my biggest issue with more expensive coins in ICCS flips is the hairlines. Example: You are perusing auction listings online. You see pictures of a coin taken in an ICCS flip, maybe graded mint state or specimen and think to yourself, "That's a nice looking coin!" There are no comments on the holder. You decide to buy the coin for an appropriate price and it gets shipped out to you. You take a look at it when it arrives and realize that it was gently, or even not so gently, cleaned by someone in the past but the plastic flip and/or the angle of the photos hid that and the TPG DIDN'T NOTE ANYTHING ON THE FLIP. That drives me absolutely crazy. I can totally see that if you are grading a VG Vickie half that there is no point in putting any notation on the holder. It's old and well worn. A buyer should expect it's likely been cleaned at some point. There is no way that a cleaned, high grade coin should be missing that notation at all, but we all know some of them are missing it. I have gambled with a few and done okay, but I have lost occasionally too. I don't want an MS or SP coin to be obviously cleaned and not have it noted somehow. Even in EF or AU I think it should be mentioned. If I can't trust the condition of the coin in the holder, why would I want to buy it? Depends on whether I like to gamble or not. YMMV. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1353 Posts |
I agree with Levaril's concerns about the lack of comments on problem coins in ICCS holders. I have burned a few times as well.
As for the 1908 specimen cents, I am not concerned about which side of the border I eventually sell them on. They are the top, or near the top, of both the ICCS and PCGS grading censuses. I will sell them someday in their PCGS holders with their old ICCS tickets. They will do fine.
http://www.victoriancent.com2011 & 2025 Fred Bowman Literary Award Winner, 2020 J. Douglas Ferguson Award Winner, & 2022 Paul Fiocca Award Winner. Life Member of RCNA.
Edited by bosox
01/25/2022 3:54 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1923 Posts |
I have had and still have I think every grading company holder with Canadian coins in them I prefer PCGS over any of them and I'm Canadian and live in Canada.
Reason: To purchase Canadian coins in a ICCS, NGC, ACG, ICG or most others other than CCCS I would have to have in hand to look at them. I found that most all of them don't mention that they have been altered (mainly cleaned). I have purchased many coins from these other grading Companies on line and when it arrives it had been cleaned and graded slabbed or in a flip with no mention of cleaning, scratches, dents, rim nicks NCG + ICCS are the worst ones for not making note of it at all.
PCGS will make note of it with a detailed coin and mention why they did detail the coin that proves to me they are a better choice
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Valued Member
Canada
289 Posts |
@bosox beautiful 1908 SP penny btw! It is a stunner for sure. Hard to imagine how any grader could look at that and think 64. I have a 63 and it's nowhere near as nice as that for sure. I don't understand the bias against them from PCGS.
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Moderator
 Canada
10463 Posts |
"Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert OppenheimerContent of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_USMy eBay store
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2495 Posts |
...I never thought of that!!
Perhaps selling your coin in a PCGS slab with the old ICCS ticket is the very best way.
Security, durability and with two of the very best grading companies around.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
3328 Posts |
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That's exactly how I sold some of my fairly modern 1-cent coins. The final hammer even exceeded my expectations. At least the bidder had the advantage of PCGS TrueView photos and know very well that the surfaces were problem-free.
That 1985 pointed  never ended up finding one and that example is amazing. Looks like it sold closer to the ICCS grade vs the PCGS grade. |
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Moderator
Canada
10463 Posts |
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Looks like it sold closer to the ICCS grade vs the PCGS grade. Technically, and surface wise, sure it did, I suspect the parallel scratches on the cheek probably impacted the PCGS grade as well. 1-cent coins from the 1980s and early 1990s are notorious for patchy spots that look like "water stains". It really detracts from the eye appeal and the overall grade. 1986-1989 are crazy hard to get MS-65 or higher from PCGS. "Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert OppenheimerContent of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_USMy eBay store
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Valued Member
United States
191 Posts |
Thanks to all the posters. The topic of this thread has been very enlightening for me.
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Replies: 40 / Views: 4,187 |
First Page
Posted 01/24/2022 9:54 pm
