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So There Is Planchet Errors And Die Errors, What About Collar Errors?

 
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Canada
3308 Posts
 Posted 06/10/2022  11:32 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Wrekkdd to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
I tried a quick search of this out of curiosity and found nothing. If we have coins struck by improper dies , wrong planchet, why are wrong collar errors not talked about much? I imagine the wrong die being inserted into the striking chamber would be caught more then an improper collar, do these varieties exist if so add a link please.
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Canada
4984 Posts
 Posted 06/10/2022  12:00 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add john100 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
A wrong sized collar will instantly cause problems for the pressman, obvious corrections will be done to resolve this issue. There are some examples of multistruck coins that are struck out of the collar, maybe collar broke
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Australia
14518 Posts
 Posted 06/10/2022  12:19 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
A collar that's too small would create a coin resembling a "railroad rim" out-of-collar error. It would also likely seriously gum up the works, creating a capped die or some other major malfunction.

A collar that's too large would effectively not exist, and thus likely be indistinguishable from a broadstrike.

It is only possible to have a true "wrong collar" error when the "wrong collar" is identical in diameter to the "correct collar", or at least close enough to avoid the abovementioned two problems from happening. As all US and Canadian coins are sufficiently differently-sized, with the possible exception of the US quarter and golden dollar, it's not a scenario that's likely with US or Canadian coins.

You can get such errors in foreign coin series, especially where a large mint making coins for multiple countries (such as Britain's Royal Mint) is tasked with making coins of similar size but with differently-styled edges. 20th century Hong Kong is notable for having numerous examples of a "wrong edge" mint error, where the security-edged collar die was not used and a "regular" milled collar was used instead. The RCM makes coins for lots of other countries these days, so a "wrong collar error" is not entirely impossible.

Perhaps the most spectacular such errors occur when an edge collar for a differently-shaped coin is accidentally used to strike a coin that is normally round. I think there are some examples known (from The Royal Mint again) of round coins struck using a British-style-heptagonal collar.
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Canada
3308 Posts
 Posted 06/10/2022  1:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Wrekkdd to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Maybe I should be more clear. I'm asking about an error where a mint that struck several or dozens of countries coins. A good example would be something like an American or Canadian nickel being struck with a reeded or grooved collar.

I understand that if the collar was for a coin not sized for the die the collar would warp the die, but with all the strange errors I have seen this one seems 100% possible.
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Russian Federation
3971 Posts
 Posted 06/10/2022  3:55 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add january1may to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
There was a case in Russia a few years ago when a run of commemorative 10 ruble coins (of the North Ossetia - Alania type) was accidentally produced with a collar (...I think it was a collar) intended for 25 ruble coins (same-ish size, different composition; also commemorative). The result looked superficially like a normal 10 ruble coin, and had appropriate (for the 10 rubles) edge lettering, but noticeably coarser reeding (intended for the 25 rubles, which didn't have edge lettering).

The error was minor and not very noticeable, so (just as the OP suggested) it wasn't caught for a while, and ended up being a fairly large run, probably on the order of hundreds of thousands (I don't recall the exact estimates offhand). I have one of those coins and they're not very expensive.
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United States
8066 Posts
 Posted 06/10/2022  11:12 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add commems to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
One collar error I'm aware of is when the collar does not move into the proper position during a strike and part of the planchet does not come in contact with it. This results in errors such as part of the edge has reeds or lettering while the rest is smooth.

There are others, but from my reading over the years, the above is the most often collar error encountered. It's called a "Partial Collar" error. I'd guess an internet search on that term would yield more details.



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Pillar of the Community
Canada
3308 Posts
 Posted 06/10/2022  11:25 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Wrekkdd to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I shouldn't have said error. If 1 or several or thousands of coins were struck with a collar not intended for that coin could be considered a mule.

Anyways is there no examples of a coin struck in collar but not in the collar that was specifically made for the coin that was struck?
Edited by Wrekkdd
06/10/2022 11:27 pm
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Canada
4984 Posts
 Posted 06/11/2022  7:21 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add john100 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
George Manz coins sold a 1999 Canada 5 cents struck on a Hong Kong scalloped planchet which the RCM was contracted to produce and the collar formed the rim shape. There is a good pic on his website
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United States
361 Posts
 Posted 06/16/2022  10:29 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Dowhat to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Collar clash is another example
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United States
10467 Posts
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Canada
3308 Posts
 Posted 06/16/2022  4:27 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Wrekkdd to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Which is noted most often on Roosevelt dimes


First time I think Mike Dimond chimed in was when I posted a double collar clash Roosevelt dime. So I know a cannot be struck by a collar that is smaller then the planchet as it would not engage, but if a slightly large collar was used in place of the regular one you would end up with a coin that looks identical to a broad struck coin(I imagine it would be impossible to tell if it was struck out of collar or if it was engaged in a collar that was larger(reeded or not reeded would possibly make a difference with identification) I'm asking more specifically if there is know and graded coins that were struck in a collar intended for a different denomination or world coin. I tried looking the error up as it seems very possible but could not find anything.
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Russian Federation
3971 Posts
 Posted 06/16/2022  5:29 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add january1may to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I'm asking more specifically if there is know and graded coins that were struck in a collar intended for a different denomination or world coin. I tried looking the error up as it seems very possible but could not find anything.
I think the Russian case I mentioned might qualify, but I'm not very confident (the reeding was wrong, the edge lettering was correct; I don't know which of the two is applied by the collar).

In a different direction, Indian 5 rupee coins are frequently found with an absolutely messed-up security edge. I wonder what happened with their collars to do it that badly.
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