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1811 Zacatecas Lvo Contemporary Counterfeit

 
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Author Previous TopicReplies: 7 / Views: 231Next Topic  
Valued Member

United States
65 Posts
 Posted 05/25/2023  1:57 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add threefifty to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
I picked up this coin recently which was advertised as a contemporary counterfeit. It felt somewhat risky as I think there is a possibility it could be a modern forgery, but this was only the second (purported) LVO CCC I had seen up for sale in a few years so I took a chance. The specific gravity is correct at 10.3, but the weight is 25.35 grams. Lots of nice incorrect details when comparing to the plate coins in Ramirez - upside down 1811 like the insurgent Type 1s, inconsistent fonts in the 8, weird Zs, LV"0" instead of LVO. The edge also has a very faint colonial design where I believe genuine pieces have a plain edge.

I wanted to see if you all had any thoughts on the coin or if you had seen a similar counterfeit variety in the past?



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United States
1793 Posts
 Posted 05/25/2023  4:19 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add realeswatcher to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Note that there have been a LOT of modern fakes of the LVO type being sold on eBay from sellers out of Mexico the past few years. Some 8R and also the minors...

This piece... hmmmmm. The one thing I'll say is that PROVISIONAL and 1811 * 8R on the opposite side almost look reengraved.

EDIT - I see the listing in eBay completed. Just look at what else he's selling... cast 1811 2R, fake Muera Huerta, etc. - obvious modern material. He occasionally offers "legitimate" contemporary counterfeits... but mixed in with many modern copies.

He also sells under some ID like josecoinsandnotes... forget the exact name. Search for some of the descriptive terms Carolina uses and you'll find it.
Edited by realeswatcher
05/25/2023 4:27 pm
Valued Member
United States
65 Posts
 Posted 05/25/2023  4:51 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add threefifty to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks realeswatcher. I did see the other modern forgeries mixed in the seller's other items... made me a bit worried about this coin but looked like a "legitimate" enough CCC (as you said) to take a shot. Could be an expensive lesson. I hope to get an XRF test eventually to see if the silver shows anything modern.

I had the same thought on re-engraving on the 8R and 1811. I'll have to try to get better pictures - under my cheap magnifying glass it looks like a weak strike but I am not knowledgeable enough to diagnose subtle tooling.
Edited by threefifty
05/25/2023 4:52 pm
Pillar of the Community
United States
1793 Posts
 Posted 05/25/2023  5:53 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add realeswatcher to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This appears to be this same specimen... guessing it sold 3 or so years back.

worthpoint.com/worthopedia/reales-lvo-1811-zacatecas-2025486163

"coin for study"

Digging on Worthpoint further, here is a different specimen from the same mold.

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United States
1793 Posts
 Posted 05/25/2023  6:03 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add realeswatcher to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I don't know enough about the generally accepted varieties, but you could definitely sell me on this being a contemporary counterfeit... given how crude it is for the "neater" style of these and just looking at the coloration of the metal. From a quality collection that was sold on eBay a few years back.
worthpoint.com/worthopedia/mexican-silver-coin-1811-lvo-real-2064755553

Valued Member
United States
65 Posts
 Posted 05/25/2023  6:26 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add threefifty to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks again - you called it. Expensive lesson it is lol. I knew it was probably a bad idea to buy it but the temptation was too great.

I'll have to use Worthpoint more - didn't realize they had Ebay archives.
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United States
2779 Posts
 Posted 05/26/2023  09:49 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add thq to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Mercado Libre usually has a few of the revolutionary pieces, both real and modern, but not much right now. This one looks real, and is more typical in appearance than the cast LVO replica.

https://articulo.mercadolibre.com.m...e8d356d253b8
"Two minutes ago I would have sold my chances for a tired dime." Fred Astaire
Edited by thq
05/26/2023 09:54 am
Pillar of the Community
United States
1793 Posts
 Posted 05/26/2023  3:01 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add realeswatcher to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Another cast fake:



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