Coin Community Family of Web Sites Live Coin auctions starting as low as $1
Like us on Facebook! Subscribe to our Youtube Channel! Check out our Twitter! Check out our Pinterest!
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?


This page may contain links that result in small commissions to keep this free site up and running.
Welcome Guest! Need help? Got a question? Inherit some coins?
Our coin forum is completely free! Register Now!

Voc - 1 Duit - 1798 Possible Fantasy Or Counterfeit?

 
To participate in the forum you must log in or register.
Author Previous TopicReplies: 5 / Views: 221Next Topic  
Valued Member

Canada
95 Posts
 Posted 05/25/2023  3:04 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add BCTokens to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Hi,

I recently aquired the following coin:

On the obverse is the VOC monogram with a "C" at the top.
On the reverse is 1/DUIT/1798.
The diameter is approximately 18.5mm, the thickness is 2.54mm and the weight is 6.91gm.





As VOC = Verenigde Oost-Indische Compagnie = United East-Indies Company, I suspected Nethelands Indies. An old catalogue of mine (Coins of the World 1750-1850 by Craig) shows a similar example, but these are only dated 1796-1797, have an N on the reverse and are made of tin. My example is too heavy to be tin.

The only other possibility I could find was Ceylon where there is an example with a C (=Colombo) on the obverse, but only dated 1789-1791 and made of lead.

My example is dense enough to be lead, but the dates are wrong. In any event the British took over Ceylon in 1795-1796 so a VOC coin dated 1798 would not be possible from Ceylon.

Does anybody have any information on this possible counterfeit/fantasy?

Jan
Valued Member
Canada
95 Posts
 Posted 05/28/2023  1:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BCTokens to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Not having had any replies, this one must be a toughie.

With some further research, I found the following images on Numista of a similar example from Ceylon 1792:




The diameter is given as 19.5mm and weight 5.81grams, composition lead. So like mine, but lighter and thinner.

For now, I am going to tentatively identify mine as a contemporary imitation of the above.

Jan
Pillar of the Community
Learn More...
United States
5802 Posts
 Posted 05/28/2023  3:00 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Briefly I wondered if the engraver might have flipped the dates on a 1789, but I can't find a 1789 either ... As you say, the word DUIT spelled out this way seems to only occur for 1792: https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=2238547

That leaves the only other chance as a 1792 with some kind of defect at the base of the 2 making it look like an 8. Any chance there is/was a countermark on the obverse at the location of the 8 reverse?

Pillar of the Community
Learn More...
United States
1426 Posts
 Posted 05/28/2023  4:03 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Hondo Boguss to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
BCTokens, it has the crude appearance of a contemporary counterfeit. But being made of lead, circulation and rough handling could explain the flattening of the devices. The date, however, is the sticking point.
Inordinately fascinated by bits of metal with strange markings and figures
Valued Member
Canada
95 Posts
 Posted 05/29/2023  12:21 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BCTokens to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you both for your input. You have given me some new leads to persue.

The link given by tdziemia gives a better image of a 1792 example. It is not impossible that there is a 2 under my 8, but I consider it unlikely without further evidence.

I also got a catalogue reference from that link: Scho. 1316b. This is from the book "De Munten van de Nederlandsche Gebiedsdeelen Overzee 1601-1948" by C. Scholten (title translated "The Coins of the Dutch Overseas Territories"). This book is old (first published 1951) but at least gives me something to look for.

Searching online for that book led me to a Dutch Coin forum: https://www.munthunter.nl which has a substantial number of threads on VOC coins. I'm not sure if my Dutch is up to posting there, but I guess I'll have to try.

Reading there I did find out that the Ceylon VOC coins were counterfeited for the tourist trade (tourists to Sri Lanka), so perhaps this is what I have.

Although I still don't know what I have, I am further along, so thanks again.

Jan
Pillar of the Community
Learn More...
United States
5802 Posts
 Posted 05/29/2023  8:55 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Reading there I did find out that the Ceylon VOC coins were counterfeited for the tourist trade (tourists to Sri Lanka), so perhaps this is what I have.


Great that you found that site!
Sounds like the most likely explanation. The fact that the originals were already crudely made makes counterfeiting even easier.


Quote:
This book is old (first published 1951) ....

Yesterday I had my nose in a numismatic reference published in 1860 that is STILL the most cited reference for its place. That makes 1951 a young whippersnapper


  Previous TopicReplies: 5 / Views: 221Next Topic  
 
To participate in the forum you must log in or register.





Disclaimer: While a tremendous amount of effort goes into ensuring the accuracy of the information contained in this site, Coin Community assumes no liability for errors. Copyright 2005 - 2023 Coin Community Family- all rights reserved worldwide. Use of any images or content on this website without prior written permission of Coin Community or the original lender is strictly prohibited.
Contact Us  |  Advertise Here  |  Privacy Policy / Terms of Use

Coin Community Forum © 2005 - 2023 Coin Community Forums
It took 0.27 seconds to rattle this change. Powered By: