First Strike's What's The Real Story?

I have to chime in on this...

I agree with Morgan Fred because the market is dictating these factors. Why? Trust! If the world were perfect and one person's "opinion" of a grade would be the same as the next person, all would be fine...but it is not.

Think about it...you have a seller who thinks the grade on a given coin is "X" and a buyer thinks it is "Y". They can't agree so they mutantly invite a 3rd party (somebody they both respect) to the table to offer his/her opinion on the matter. The person does not have any interest in either the seller or the buyer. Let's call that person a mediator of coin grading and authenticity. The 3rd person may even solicit assistance from other experts he knows before he renders his opinion. Once his opinion is rendered, both seller and buyer agree to respect the 3rd party's decision. Somebody is going to like the ruling more so than the other person and yes, the person who owns the coin is probably NOT going to be happy if the 3rd party calls his coin MS65 instead of MS66. That debate will always be with us.

However from the buyer's standpoint, I KNOW what I am getting and I KNOW that it is real and authenticated. Because of that peace of mind, I am willing to pay a premium for it over the same coin in the same grade...especially if I am buying sight-unseen (via ebay or over the phone) However, if your grading skills are not up to the "godfathers" of numismatics, are you willing to to depart with your money for something you are not exactly sure of?

Personally, this happened to me years ago. I came across some really nice early teen Lincoln "S" mints that I deemed to be in MS63BN condition. I looked and looked at the coin and fell in love with both of their chocolate luster shines and strikes. I sent them off to one of the top four and one came back MS61 and the other AU58...

They were both listed on the seller's table as MS/BU coins. I looked at them (obviously, not close enough)and paid for them as 63 grades (there abouts). When they came back, I felt sick! Took them to my local coin guy and he told me he agreed with the slabbed grade. Since then, I have been very reluctant to pull the trigger on a major purchase (for me that is) unless somebody offers a second opinion UNTIL I upgrade my grading skills.

Now...if I purchased them "slabbed" with PCGS, NGC...it might have cost me another $20 to $60, BUT...I would have known what I was getting and IF I were to sell them, I could turn these over much faster than posting them on ebay with my "trust-me" smile.

I say this because many of us of not as good graders as we think. My personal weak link with Lincoln grading is in that slider range of AU55 to MS63. Unfortunately, that is the goal for my Lincoln collection for all to be at least in these grades! It was an expensive lesson, but at least I learned from it.

Now...other than 3rd party opinions on grade and authentication, I like slabs for displaying and storing my precious old RED Lincolns. But that is just me. Sonically sealed and other inert gas absorbing materials make sense to me.

Here is another example:

If a buyer approaches me and tells me, that coin with a grade of MS66 is not right by ______ grading company, he may claim it is a MS65! Believe me, there are other buyers that will buy that coin as a MS66 because ____ slabbed it as so. If I were to sell that coin raw and state to a potential buyer that it is MS66, he may even say it is MS64 and hence a battle ensues...who knows?, we may compromise at MS65 where somebody is either getting a bargain or somebody is losing a bunch.

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But back to the matter at hand. PCGS and other top services should concentrate on grading, authentication, protection and registries. The one with the best and most consistent of these four areas (especially the first two) should be rewarded with more business for years to come. I am troubled that they are selling "Jessica" coins and these "First Strikes" for the sole purpose of making a fast buck. If you think about it, it is VERY possible for a coin struck in January to have a MS68 grade, but I doubt you will find any "First Strike" coins from PCGS that are graded below MS69. Come to think about it...shouldn't the likihood of MS70 grades be more probable in these First Strike coins than later strikes throughout the year? Using the same rational and logic, you can see that all of this is going to eveuntally lower PCGS into the same levels as the home shopping channels.

Too bad...they are going after new collectors and the expense of us.

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On a personal note, I have reduced my my "coin on-line forum time" to only "Coin Community" because I need to spend more time on higher priorities (work, house, kids). I may not post as much as I have in the past, but I will continue to read these educational threads that make me a better collector overall. So if you don't hear from me in awhile, you know the reason. Ed

Zak and ND, Great input as usual. I was burned many times from many sources by buying over graded coins. I am and always will be learning the "art" of grading. I have a very good Library of resource books that illustrate beautifully where to look on most every coin for the first signs of wear. TheAU58 to MS62 range is where I get lost the most. I notice ND advises learning the adjectival grades first. I think this is great advice and one that I have worked hard on. I posted a thread a few weeks back suggesting that adjectival grading was easier to deal with than Point grading. I know that adjectival grades are assigned #'s as well, but have a specific set of requirements on a specific series that has to be met in order to move up a grade. I got hammered with the what about’s and what if’s. (All the “Tweener’ questions) Those questions remain no matter what system you follow. I know I have to and do live by the 70-point system. My problem with it is that 14 1/2% of the available numbers deal with MS coins with only 60 numbers left to cover everything else. As I said in the last post. MS61? Don't make me laugh!!!!

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Originally posted by zakgold
On a personal note, I have reduced my my "coin on-line forum time" to only "Coin Community" because I need to spend more time on higher priorities (work, house, kids). I may not post as much as I have in the past, but I will continue to read these educational threads that make me a better collector overall. So if you don't hear from me in awhile, you know the reason. Ed

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Ed, I know what you mean about the time crunch. There's only 28 hours in a day and that's not enough!

But, please don't go too far from us; we need your insight, perspective, and hard-earned knowledge which you have so freely shared before.

We'll keep the light on.

How did you get 28? I have been looking for more hours. Could use 4 more in a given day, and maybe an extra day in the week.

Indiana is in a world of their own. Depending on the time of the year, it can really throw off the traveling times. For those that don't know, there is no daylight savings time there.
Of course, I keep getting invitations to move the office to Indy, and I do love it there.

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Originally posted by national dealer

How did you get 28? I have been looking for more hours. Could use 4 more in a given day, and maybe an extra day in the week.

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I bought a goodly supply of extra hours off ebay (of course) last year. I'm running low, so will be shopping around for more. There's a few hours available in Buy It Now auctions, but they're over-priced and not particularly high quality. I'm thinking of going to look outside the US, perhaps in the South Pacific where idle hours seem to be in abundance and of extremely high quality.

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Originally posted by national dealer
Indiana is in a world of their own. Depending on the time of the year, it can really throw off the traveling times. For those that don't know, there is no daylight savings time there.
Of course, I keep getting invitations to move the office to Indy, and I do love it there.

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I'm presently in Arizona. No Daylight Savings Time here either. In the winter, we're on Mountain Standard Time while in the summer, Pacific Daylight Time. Never change the clocks.

BECAUSE neither one makes much sense, thats how!!! I will throw in a fact that last year I was the first U.S. citizen to try to order a PCGS encapsulated and graded France silver Euro commemorating D-Day! The distributor didn't have a clue what I was talking about as only 200 FIRST strikes would be made and handed over to a PCGS representitive at the French Mint the day of the FIRST strikes. They was then flown to the U.S. in serial numbered containers 1 thru 200 and the slab carries the order of strike (serial number). Now remember I was the first to attempt to place an order! About two weeks later the distributor, who took my information, called back (now that they had gained the knowledge needed to offer the coins for sale) and offered me the coins in question. I asked if they remembered who made the first call and of course they did and verified that it was indeed me! I asked for the first strike (serial #1) and they replied they had already been offered $600 each for #1 and #2? I then asked for #3 and #4 and the best they could do was to offer to send the lowest strike number they possibly could. I WAS FIRST IN LINE and got #131 and #132! Guess there are 130 collectors here in the states that do business with that particular dealer who has a lot more pull than I do? Any way Catman I, for what it is worth, have a DOCUMENTED FIRST STRIKE that will someday, if not already, be worth less than what I paid for them! One thing is for certain the French collectors didn't have a clue this program was being offered to U.S. citizens first!

Now ND we Hoosiers will be glad to help you move and glad to have you. Perhaps we could do you like our friends up in Indy did with the Colts. Build you a new stadium and sneak you out under the cover of darkness! What ever suits your needs will be fine with us! And about 20 years from now we will tear down your relatively NEW home and build you another NEW one so that you can make more money in the future with the same amount of effort! Relax its only tax money and we Hoosiers offer it up for just about everything. Let me know when you want to make the move as we need a good dealer here very badly!

Catman,

I had many thoughts and even a few comments, but I have thought better of it. I grew up in Los Angeles and made more than a few trips over the mountain to your area. I still make the show every other year. I think that if I moved back west, I would never get anything done. I would probably get bitten by the gold and silver bug, grab a shovel and pick, and head for the hills.

ND...come to God's waiting room of Florida. No state income tax and better yet , no tax on coins sold (for the majority).

Anyways, all of these seniors that live down here visit their local coin store with the same story:

"This is my husband's colletion...I hate these because he would rather post on the coin forums instead of give me the attention I deserve...what is it you say?...10 cents on the dollar for this 'mess'?...I'll take it!"

"Me and the senior ladies are going to Denny's tonight!"