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 Replies: 33 / Views: 2,645 |
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Rest in Peace
United States
2884 Posts |
Hello Group, It seems that the term "First Strike" is being used a lot these days. Many nights when I can't sleep I roll through the channels and can't resist 15 minutes or so of " The Coin Vault". It seems that since the advent of the American Eagle series and more recently the State Quarters Program that the late night boys have cornered the market on "First Strike" issue's of these coins. Now let me think about this. Am I mistaken or are new dies constantly rolled into the run of any series. If this is so then “first strikes” are distributed throughout a production run. I've heard about "sharpness" and "boldness" and such but yet in this forum have read about some "ugly" what should have been first strikes (Jeff/Buffs et al) so my assumption is you can't really tell! Maybe this is nothing but coin chatter, something to argue about and yet another marketing Coupe by SAH. Well maybe not! I saw an ad for a slabbed PCGS "First Strike American Eagle”! What’s up with this? Were Goober and Gomer selling to many NGC proprietary cases on late night T.V. and PCGS just couldn't resist the profit potential? Oh my I'm ranting!!!!!!    |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2724 Posts |
You are correct. Many new dies are used throughout a production run and with each new die a series of "First Strikes" are made. The TV channels use the term as the very first day the coins are struck in a given series. Now with each coin struck the dies wear and therefor the weakness follows. PCGS has been using the term to market their products and have done quite well. Dealers buy coins struck the first day and use the term first strike. While a particular coin was struck the first day doesn't mean it is going to be all that great. If you receive the 10,000th coin struck on day one it is still a first strike. It could easily be weak or some of the design polished away. Don't buy into the hype. It isn't that special to buy a coin on day one. I would much rather have an early strike off of any given die.
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Rest in Peace
United States
2684 Posts |
quote:
Originally posted by Mike
Hello Group,
Many nights when I can't sleep I roll through the channels and can't resist 15 minutes or so of " The Coin Vault".
Hi Mike (and Sara, of course) -- I've also been hearing a lot about "The Coin Vault" on TV, but I've never seen it. On what channel might it be and what time? I have Dish Network, so have available a wide variety of really off-world channels. Tnx, Fred |
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Rest in Peace
 United States
2884 Posts |
Fred, on Direct T.V. it is Channel 234 "Shop at Home" Network. I'm sure it is on your system as well. This link has their programming schedule.. http://www.shopathometv.com/shopath...fjdfjg.0&n=0 Also on PAX T.V on Tuesdays and Thursday's a show called "Coin Country" broadcasts, their link is http://www.coincountry.com/ Have Fun, it helps if you have insomnia and only want backround noise! Mike  |
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Valued Member
United States
382 Posts |
I am frankly disappointed with PCGS and this First Strike nonsense. ND is right...if you get the 10,000th strike in the first month of production, does it mean it will be better than strike #1 in the second month of production?
I had alot of respect for PCGS...but between the Jessica Lynch signed slabs to this First Strike marketing gimmic...it is all hype at the expense of collectors.
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Rest in Peace
United States
2684 Posts |
quote:
Originally posted by Mike
Fred, on Direct T.V. it is Channel 234 "Shop at Home" Network. I'm sure it is on your system as well. This link has their programming schedule..http://www.shopathometv.com/shopath...fjdfjg.0&n=0 Also on PAX T.V on Tuesdays and Thursday's a show called "Coin Country" broadcasts, their link is http://www.coincountry.com/ Have Fun, it helps if you have insomnia and only want backround noise! Mike
Thanks, Mike, I appreciate the reference. I found it on Dish Network channel 224 which, of course, I don't have since I have only the minimum package (plus the Western Channel and UPN for Star Trek: Enterprise which is worth a second thread). Also, it appears the show time is 0500 Eastern Time which makes it 0300 Mountain Time. That makes it either a tad too early or a tad too late. [:p] |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2724 Posts |
Zak brought up a good point. PCGS has really been pushing the marketing down our throats. While they should be concentrating on grading, they are pushing material. I understand the logic, but at what point will they move into selling coins? If you start down the path, how long before you miss something. It is not a good move in my opinion, and it seems to me that collectors will have to stand against this type of merketing. PCGS is acting like the shop at home channels.
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Rest in Peace
United States
954 Posts |
The Term "First Strike" is a genuine numismatic term that has been in use for many, many, many years. It is correctly defined at the "first strikes off a new working die" It is possible to have both obverse or reverse first strikes as we as both sides first strikes.
A First Strike will show very sharp and clear elements. Usually the larger elements will show a nice frosting to them. The easiest ones to find are the cent. Try taking a few rolls of newly mint pennies and looking at them without the aid of a glass. A first strike will stand out like a piece of hot blackberry pie in the center of a plate of broccoli..!
catman
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Rest in Peace
United States
2884 Posts |
Catman, it's true that the term has been around forever. It was great to see a nice bold and clean strike and descibe it as an "early strike". But since when did PCGS start using it on slabbed coins? First strikes can occur at any time during a run. I guess their saying a new year's run, early production, ='s "First Strike" or 1000th or 5000th? Its being used now as a marketing tool! Mike Edited by Mike
03/24/2005 5:37 pm
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Rest in Peace
United States
954 Posts |
Mike,
I don't really care for the slabbing companies that much. I feel that they have gotten out of hand with their claims and such. I grade my own coins regardless of the slab company. If my grade is different than theirs I bust the coin out of the slab.
catman
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Rest in Peace
United States
2684 Posts |
quote:
Originally posted by catman
Mike,
I don't really care for the slabbing companies that much. I feel that they have gotten out of hand with their claims and such. I grade my own coins regardless of the slab company. If my grade is different than theirs I bust the coin out of the slab.
catman
I agree that the top slabbing companies go overboard to a measurable degree, vis a vis the PCGS "Jessica Lynch signature" slabs. (I'm a vet of both Vietnam and Grenada, didn't before and still don't see Jessica as a "hero" - any soldier who throws down their weapon and huddles down crying while other soldiers carry on the fight is no hero. I will not fault her, however for staying alive while in captivity.). And I don't like the TPG's grading inconsistencies, the rates they charge (especially PCGS), and how "business days" are counted (i.e. 15 "business days" translates into a month) . However, if I want my coins to maintain or appreciate their value, I'll get them slabbed (specifically, by PCGS). And if I want to sell them and get top dollar, they MUST be in a slab. Nobody is going to take my word that a raw coin is MS-65 or whatever. And when I buy a coin, I'm not gonna take someone else's word that an ungraded coin is MS-65 or whatever; I want some guarantee that the grade is within the ballpark and only the top-tiered TPGs are gonna fit this bill. I guess the TPGs may now be considered a necessary evil. |
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Rest in Peace
United States
954 Posts |
Fred, The next time you go to a coin show take your favorite slab coin with you. Show it to several dealers and see what kind of a response you get. I think your in for a shocker. catman |
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Rest in Peace
United States
2684 Posts |
quote:
Originally posted by catman
Fred,
The next time you go to a coin show take your favorite slab coin with you. Show it to several dealers and see what kind of a response you get. I think your in for a shocker.
catman
I have to go where my market is if I'm selling a coin; also, I'm not selling to dealers - I'm selling retail to collectors. For me, since I'm in the boonies, that's ebay which I monitor very closely for current realized prices for particular coins in which I have a vested interest. Coin shows for me might as well be on Mars - with only the exception of the Las Vegas coin show which I couldn't attend (I had company), I'm so far away from them that I don't even keep track of their dates. Also, from my observations, the online auctions vs coin shows vs floor auctions differ so completely in prices realized that they might as well exist on separate planets (a slight overstatement requiring lots of qualifications, but significant enough to keep me from changing venues). |
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Rest in Peace
United States
2884 Posts |
Hi folks! I think the debate on TPG's, slabbing and grading, will go on forever. My point was, we now find yet another way to kick up the perceived value of a coin! Again it is, and always will be all in the eye of the person looking at the coin and that's fine. Here's the show story...I have an unslabbed coin that I say is an MS63. Dealers at the show say no way maybe MS60/61 tops. I send the coin out to PCGS. It comes back a MS63! I was right. I go to the next show all proud of myself.I show the now slabbed PCGS MS63 to the same guys. They say "so what, I buy the coin, not the slab"! I rest my case Mike |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2724 Posts |
Most dealers like to buy at one grade and sell at another. Of course collectors do the same thing. That is one reason that I like the ultra rare coins. No matter the grade, the availability of the item is what commands the price. I pay way over any price guide on a lot of my coins simply because the chance of finding another are slim to none.
Now when I do buy a common coin, I buy and sell at the grade that I feel is right. 99% of my coins are slabbed by NGC or PCGS but regardless of their opinion, it is only my customer and mine that matter. If we agree, the deal is done. When you find sellers or dealers who operate with customer satisfaction as number 1, I would recommend that you stick to them like glue.
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Rest in Peace
United States
2684 Posts |
quote:
Originally posted by Mike
Hi folks! I think the debate on TPG's, slabbing and grading, will go on forever. My point was, we now find yet another way to kick up the perceived value of a coin! Again it is, and always will be all in the eye of the person looking at the coin and that's fine. Here's the show story...I have an unslabbed coin that I say is an MS63. Dealers at the show say no way maybe MS60/61 tops. I send the coin out to PCGS. It comes back a MS63! I was right. I go to the next show all proud of myself.I show the now slabbed PCGS MS63 to the same guys. They say "so what, I buy the coin, not the slab"! I rest my case Mike
Absolutely no argument whatsoever that the slab debate will last forever. As far as dealers poo-pooing any particular coin, I believe the main reason they do so is to lower the price so they can buy it themselves at even less than wholesale; if they weren't in the market for it, they might praise it. Let them sell the same coin and that MS-63 suddenly become "undergraded". Buy low, sell high. It's just business. |
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Replies: 33 / Views: 2,645 |
Posted 03/22/2005 10:06 pm
