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1907 AU St Gauden - Need Help

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Valued Member
Guido's Avatar
United States
390 Posts
 Posted 10/08/2006  3:41 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Guido to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I am thinking of buying this coin, but I need some more expert opinions whether this is a scam or not (an whether this is at least an AU coin). I thought it was a good deal, even if it's AU, but when I look at the pictures on the auction, they appear to be two different coins. That is disturbing to say the least. I sent the seller an email to get his excuse, but I'm really sceptical at this point. The seller's feedback is 100%, but hasn't sold anything but proof sets (mostly) in the last few months and didn't do anything for several years. It just doesn't smell right. Here is the auction:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...260037809034

Thanks in advance.
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
United States
23522 Posts
 Posted 10/08/2006  4:47 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I can't comment on grade, but they are all the same coin. On the obverse, note the little "J"-shaped mark below Liberty's left arm, and the small nick near the rim, between two stars, at about 3:00. On the reverse, note the rim nick at about 8:00. All those are visible in both sets of pics.
Valued Member
Guido's Avatar
United States
390 Posts
 Posted 10/08/2006  10:53 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Guido to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Good catch! Thanks for the input.
Valued Member
Guido's Avatar
United States
390 Posts
 Posted 10/12/2006  8:13 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Guido to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Anyone have input on a possible grade?
Pillar of the Community
ageka's Avatar
Belgium
2078 Posts
 Posted 10/13/2006  07:38 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ageka to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Guido

Anyone have input on a possible grade?



Sorry Guido
It took me 20 hours to defrag my C drive so I could Ghost it to my D drive all in all three days of back up activity
( I know defragging is not necessary but Ghost refused to start because of fragmented index )
Do you still want an opinion in view of the fact that the auction ended ?
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ageka's Avatar
Belgium
2078 Posts
 Posted 10/13/2006  5:15 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ageka to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
As from now on I will be on vacation
Hasta la vista
Adios
Valued Member
Guido's Avatar
United States
390 Posts
 Posted 10/15/2006  01:55 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Guido to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yes, I would still like an opinion. Thanks

Sorry to hear about your computer. Sucks bigtime!!
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ageka's Avatar
Belgium
2078 Posts
 Posted 10/16/2006  1:51 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ageka to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Guido

Yes, I would still like an opinion. Thanks

Sorry to hear about your computer. Sucks bigtime!!



Computer was my own mistake ; I thought I could get away with defragging free space only and I only made life miserable for myself

On the coin , I would not have bought it because it is an MS63 with problems
Something kept bugging me
I finally figured out what it was
I see a four or five lettered word probably somebody wrote on the paper of one half of a double flip and there is an impression of that
I think I see K and N or R
I changed the color trying to highlight the writing
Try looking at it unfoced or squinting your eyes



Image: 1907-AU-St-Gauden---Need-Help Annotated.jpg
53.31 KB

1907-AU-St-Gauden---Need-Help
Valued Member
Guido's Avatar
United States
390 Posts
 Posted 10/17/2006  01:05 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Guido to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
When you say "with problems", how does that affect the value (I know, it's never good.....)? Would it be more of a MS62, or does having those letters on it make it more worthless? I just need a little more explanation on your comment.

Thanks

And how do you defrag free space? I thought defrag was for defragmented files so your computer would run faster. Maybe I'm missing something here? Oh, I see it had to do with the Ghosting thing and index problems. Way over my head now.....
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ageka's Avatar
Belgium
2078 Posts
 Posted 10/17/2006  07:13 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ageka to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Guido

When you say "with problems", how does that affect the value (I know, it's never good.....)? Would it be more of a MS62, or does having those letters on it make it more worthless? I just need a little more explanation on your comment.

Thanks

And how do you defrag free space? I thought defrag was for defragmented files so your computer would run faster. Maybe I'm missing something here? Oh, I see it had to do with the Ghosting thing and index problems. Way over my head now.....



On your first question I never used slabbers but my friend says some slabbers will give a grade with an annotation as MS63 with problem
I guess other slabbers may bodybag it ( return ) or even XF it if there is a clear non mint damage present
In all cases the coin is problems

On the second question I use Norton systemworks and got three options
Defrag files only ( very fast and harmless)
Defrag free space only ( Very fast and I think no problem for certain applications like when you are running out of room and there is a single block sitting in the middle of the free space bothering you )
Defrag completely ( Long work but 100% defrag )

On a german forum they pointed out I was losing my time anyway since Ghost does not need defragging and when it is used as active back up to be written back it will deliver a completely defragged file anyway automatically
Valued Member
Guido's Avatar
United States
390 Posts
 Posted 10/19/2006  01:16 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Guido to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hmmmm.... thanks for that input. I did end up buying this coin before I got your reply), so I will send it to NGC to grade and see where the chips fall. I guess I need to figure a way to see these pictures in a better light to see any of these potential problems. I totally missed that, though.

I think you computer stuff is beyond me at this point. Hope everything is back to normal now.
Edited by Guido
10/19/2006 01:17 am
Pillar of the Community
ageka's Avatar
Belgium
2078 Posts
 Posted 10/19/2006  04:31 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ageka to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have a photoprogram
First thing is to play around with light and contrast
I find increasing light and contrast in steps of 5% usufull
Or alternatively jump light 20 % and contrast only 10 %

Second test is getting rid of the gold color
you can go to black and white, but I prefer going out on blue all the way and then back off to see whether I got a better contrast

Blow up the pic to the biggest size until the jpeg starts breaking up and then back off some
With a 96 dpi you should be able to increase size by 50 % at least

Sharpen up the pic untill the jpeg falls apart then back off
Normally you can only sharpen one unit

Start looking at the rim first then the edge area then work your way to the centre of the coin
After that go to the highest points for slide and look at the bagmarks

Downsize the coin to a very small size and see whether you like it better big or small . If it makes a difference something may be wrong somewhere

Last and this is not advice
If there are lettres on the coin there is a reasonable chance they are pvc or other plastic matter and that will disolve in acetone
If the lettres were applied directly (unlikely) or by a piece of paper laying over the coin then you are out of luck unless it was ink transfer from say a newpaper
acetone will dissolve ink too

I scout and grade coins ; my american friend buys them and has them slabbed by NGC
Valued Member
Guido's Avatar
United States
390 Posts
 Posted 10/19/2006  3:37 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Guido to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
When you say photo program, what do you mean? Can you give me a couple of examples of these programs? I think I need to get one.

I should have this coin in a few days. Then my real work will start, it sounds like.

I will read up on the acetone cleaning (and how to get the acetone off once it's cleaned), but if you have any other instructions on this so I don't mess up, I'd appreciate them.

Since I am going to send the coin to NGC to grade, would it make sense to send it to NCS first to see what they say?

And again, thank you for all your input and feedback.

This is my first raw gold coin I have purchased, and it has been a real learning experience. I think I will learn a lot more before going after the next one.

Edited by Guido
10/19/2006 4:13 pm
Pillar of the Community
ageka's Avatar
Belgium
2078 Posts
 Posted 10/20/2006  07:55 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ageka to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
My scanner came with a photoprogram that can change light - dark
contrast- color on all axes - redeye - colorditribution - size -etc
It is called iphotoplus
But under the section photography you will find many standalone programs like photoshop ( which is not cheap )

As to the acetone ; on a warm day it will flash of in a few seconds
Check under 10X magnification . No shine nor residue should be left
My friend acetones all his gold coins before sending them to NGC

However a cold day will leave telltale small deposits or a bluish tinge So I do all my acetoning is open air in summer
Valued Member
Guido's Avatar
United States
390 Posts
 Posted 10/20/2006  2:38 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Guido to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I've seen on here that people wash the coins off with distilled/purified water after using the acetone. Is this necessary, or can it cause any problems?

Also, how long do you soak the coins in acetone?

I have photoshop, I just don't know how to use it very well. So I can load a picture into it and use that?
Edited by Guido
10/20/2006 2:40 pm
Pillar of the Community
ageka's Avatar
Belgium
2078 Posts
 Posted 10/20/2006  2:55 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ageka to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Guido

I've seen on here that people wash the coins off with distilled/purified water after using the acetone. Is this necessary, or can it cause any problems?

Also, how long do you soak the coins in acetone?

I have photoshop, I just don't know how to use it very well. So I can load a picture into it and use that?



I have found many times that the distilled water the supermarket sells to use in those steam irons for clothing is not pure enough and will leave drying marks You would need really triple distilled water

The soak in acetone ( never ever rub or finger the coin ) can take from 30 seconds swirling the liquid gently to overnight
Makes no difference since acetone is a solvent
The question is simelar to asking how long it takes to dissolve a sugar cube in a glass of water ( depends whether you use a spoon and on the temperature etc )

I understand the profesional photoshop will do anything except fry your eggs for you
Open photoshop and import the picture and find out from help or the manual what you can do

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