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Denver And Philadelphia Coin Distribution

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NumisRob's Avatar
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 Posted 10/26/2023  3:42 pm Show Profile   Check NumisRob's eBay Listings Bookmark this topic Add NumisRob to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
On my recent visit to San Francisco, Seattle and Alaska, I got very few Philadelphia coins in change, and none from the 2020s other than a single Shield cent. On visits to New York and Boston my change has always been dominated by Philadelphia coins. Is there anywhere in the States where both D and P coins circulate in roughly equal numbers?
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jbuck's Avatar
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 Posted 10/26/2023  4:03 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I believe the general rule is that the Mississippi river is the dividing line. If that is true, then any place along the river should have equal access. The Twin Cities immediately come to mind.

That being said, I expect members who have access to both will be able to confirm any theory.
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Dearborn's Avatar
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 Posted 10/26/2023  4:26 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Dearborn to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yes, that is my understanding too, West of the Mississippi river is dominated by Denver coins, and East it is Philadelphia.
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Sap's Avatar
Australia
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 Posted 10/26/2023  9:01 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I was hoping somebody on the Internet somewhere would have published a heatmap, showing typical percentages of P and D coins in circulation. But alas, if someone has created such a map, my Google-fu could not find it.
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kbbpll's Avatar
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 Posted 10/26/2023  11:30 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add kbbpll to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I wonder how accurate the Mississippi river theory is. Wouldn't it depend more on which mint each Federal Reserve bank gets its coins from? Or does it depend on which mint can more quickly deliver the coins ordered? And then wouldn't the individual banks be getting their coin from whichever Federal Reserve bank serves that Federal Reserve district? The St Louis federal reserve bank district for example includes a large area on both sides of the river. The Chicago bank serves all of Iowa. The Minneapolis bank serves northern WI and all of upper MI. Those districts all cross the river. https://www.federalreserve.gov/abou...e-system.htm

Well, it's an interesting question. If it really is the river, it seems like towns near a bridge over the river might have more of a mix.
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Sap's Avatar
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 Posted 10/26/2023  11:59 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The Feds would order coins from "whichever mint is cheapest", and that would likely change from year to year, depending on the costings for the various subcontractors that do the actual shipping. Fed branches wouldn't be contractually locked in to receive coins from specific mints. Though of course locations that are much closer to one mint or the other are always likely to be universally serviced by that mint; if that weren't the cheaper option, then the whole concept of "branch mints" would need to be questioned.

The other factor is, of course, human movement. Pennies might be single-use tokens (not entirely unlike bus tickets, used once then thrown away) in the eyes of many people, but most higher denominations actually still circulate, and people on the move take their coins with them. Places where lots of people travel to or from, I would expect a lot more rapid admixture of coins. Washington DC, Los Angeles, NYC, Florida, other places that get lots of tourists and/or through traffic.

That's my hypothesis, anyway. Again, I would like to see a heatmap to confirm.
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BStrauss3's Avatar
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 Posted 10/27/2023  8:39 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BStrauss3 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Wouldn't it depend more on which mint each Federal Reserve bank gets its coins from?


Coins don't go to the Federal Reserve bank. The mint delivers the coins to the Fed's Contracted Coin Terminals. The CCTs receive coins in ballistic nylon bags and count/wrap them for distribution to banks that order coins. The CCTs also receive coins from those retail banks which are counted/wrapped for distribution.
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NumisRob's Avatar
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 Posted 10/28/2023  08:50 am  Show Profile   Check NumisRob's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add NumisRob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I believe the general rule is that the Mississippi river is the dividing line.

Looks as if my next US vacation will have to be one of those lovely Mississippi cruises on a sternwheeler!
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cladking's Avatar
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 Posted 10/28/2023  10:42 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add cladking to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Coins move in a random walk but now days even though they move further when they move they make a lot fewer trips so stay close to home. Pennies don't really circulate at all and the attrition on nickels and dimes is so high it's hard to see that older coins are mixed reasonable well.

Quarters have a little lower attrition so if you can find some from the early '70's you'll see they are pretty well mixed in most parts of the country.
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Brandmeister's Avatar
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 Posted 10/28/2023  11:12 am  Show Profile   Check Brandmeister's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Brandmeister to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I am relatively near Philadelphia, and search only nickels. I would say that all decades from 1938-1979 are mixed quite well for P vs. D. The 1980s are relatively mixed, but skew somewhat towards P. The 1990s are very lopsided towards P, maybe 80/20 to 90/10. From 2000-2005, the D mint marks get scarce enough that when I have one, I'm like, "Oh, a D." After 2006, I will automatically set aside a D that is superficially in good condition because I know I have very few in my BU rolls.

The other day, I got a batch of gleaming 2022-D, and I was quite pleased. I treated them like nickels from the 1940s! =)
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kbbpll's Avatar
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 Posted 10/28/2023  11:33 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add kbbpll to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Coins don't go to the Federal Reserve bank. The mint delivers the coins to the Fed's Contracted Coin Terminals.
The US Mint says it's both.
"Armored cars and trucks take the coins from the Philadelphia or Denver Mint facilities to the Reserve Banks' 28 branch offices and more than 100 private sector coin terminals. The coin terminals are operated by armored carrier services contracted by the Federal Reserve." and the next bold heading is "5. Federal Reserve Banks distribute to depository institutions."
https://www.usmint.gov/news/inside-...-circulation

Maybe I'll count up my coin jars by decade and mint as an experiment to test these theories. I live 60 miles north of the Denver mint but we also get a ton of tourists from all over. My subjective observations are that all of the newer coins I ever get in change are from Denver, and very few people traveling take coins with them so there is less mixing than we think. The mint says only 20% of coins in circulation are "new" ("new" is not defined) and the average lifespan of a coin is about 30 years.
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cladking's Avatar
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 Posted 10/28/2023  3:27 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add cladking to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
The US Mint says it's both.
"Armored cars and trucks take the coins from the Philadelphia or Denver Mint facilities to the Reserve Banks' 28 branch offices and more than 100 private sector coin terminals. The coin terminals are operated by armored carrier services contracted by the Federal Reserve." and the next bold heading is "5. Federal Reserve Banks distribute to depository institutions."
https://www.usmint.gov/news/inside-...-circulation


In theory the mints still ship to the FED banks but in practice the coins get into circulation almost solely through contractors (counting houses) that ship them to local banks. To my knowledge the FED branches do almost nothing with coin either. There may be exceptions.

Think of it this way; when you make money by the trillions what do you want with a dirty disgusting penny that began evaporating the day it is made? Their customers want billions of dollars and not a lot of pennies.
Time don't fly, it bounds and leaps.
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