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 Replies: 9 / Views: 1,516 |
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New Member
United States
2 Posts |
I'm sure this topic has been discussed in the past what I don't understand is why grading companies like NGC and PCGS grade modern bullion coins like the American Silver Eagles? My understanding is the ASE program was started by Pres. Reagan to allow the everyday person easy access to the silver bullion market, but these coins were not intended to be used as actual currency. I can understand grading "coins" more than 20 years old for their numismatic value, but it seems that paying $100 for a Troy ounce of silver when the same coin without a slab goes for $32. Also, I understand the grading scheme was laid out such that MS-70 would be the ultimate, nearly unheard of, highest possible. A perfect strike in every way. I am certain there may be at least one flaw on every "perfect" coin, yet I am suspect to what seems to be a high availability of MS-70 coins. Is it worth paying so much extra for a label, or would you rather seek 68 and 69 at a considerably lower premium and thus buy more coins? Could I always send in my bullion ASE's to NGC or PCGS later on if I want to turn them into "investment grade" coins? Or it is more economic to pay for the grading upfront when you first buy the coin? |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
667 Posts |
I would like to address this two ways. Bullion - silver at the lowest possible premium is what you want. It makes no difference in the type. Numismatic - You probably are looking for several things, grading/best coin, rarity, among other things. Now you can combined bullion with numismatic but that is an entirely different animal requiring not only following the gold/silver market but the numismatic portion. Grading - personal choice some have to have the so called best of anything. The big three will grade just about anything for the money. I don't bother with graded / slabbed coins. To me they carry a higher premium that I may or may not get when I sell. They are but ugly in a square piece of plastic too. My bullion non graded is - investment (not what we are doing with gold silver by the way) SPECULATION quality. You can always send any bullion in for grading at any time, is it worth it, I will let you judge if it is. Now if I found some fool that would pay me large premiums on my bullion if they graded MS70 I would be first in line to get them graded.  After all I'm in it for the money. |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1502 Posts |
Why? because they can make money doing it. I suppose there are enough collectors of slabbed numismatic coins to spill over to the bullion side.
i can understand the appeal of "perfect" coins, and when buying the odd bullion coin myself, I will obviously pick out and prefer the shinier and less dented in the bunch. But paying $30 for a some company to grade a ~#30 coin and having it stuck in plastic is just not my thing
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1450 Posts |
Let's not forget that with bullion coins,the grade getting the high dollar premiums are not just the MS-70's,but the ones that say"first strike" on them. The whole bullion grading and first strike nonsense is nothing more than an "ego play". There is a small group of "investors" in that market,most are grossly inexperienced,and because of that are being fleeced. It is unfortunate that all over the internet,if you read materials from"experts" about protecting yourself with coins,TPG is almost always mentioned as the best protection you have if you aren't well educated in coins. The thieves have figured out how to turn protection into profit. I don't buy slabbed coins and doubt that I ever will so keep that in mind as you read this rant. I will now take my soapbox and go back to my cent and nickel rolls!
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Pillar of the Community
United States
931 Posts |
Some people see the ASE as an extension of the US Silver Dollar. They are putting together complete date and mint sets at MS69 or MS70. A 1988 ASE in MS70 goes for well over $1000 and is listed on the TPG websites at over $2500 in their price guides. To some a graded set is a competition and they are willing to have the best at any cost. I'm not willing to pay that, but some collectors will. Also, in order to prove that your 2011 bullion ASE was minted at The San Francisco mint is to buy a TPG graded one. That is unless you happen to have a sealed Monster Box from the SF mint. I did buy a 2006 W Uncirculated ASE in PCGS MS70 because I wanted to own this key coin in 70 condition, so I guess I also fell for the scam. Edited by junior e
10/24/2011 1:32 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4008 Posts |
Quote:
I can understand grading "coins" more than 20 years old for their numismatic value, but it seems that paying $100 for a Troy ounce of silver when the same coin without a slab goes for $32. Yes, I have seen that but have zero interest in it. Give me 3-oz. of BU ASEs AND $4 change instead of a single slabbed ASE every single time. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5850 Posts |
I've been asking myself the same question with regard to platinum "coins". True, they do have a nominal dollar value assigned to them, but they were never intended to be spent and I don't think they have been around long enough to have any historical value. They're basically just attractive disks of platinum. Why somebody would get a platinum coin graded and slabbed is beyond me. Or, more precisely, why somebody would pay a premium for a graded and slabbed platinum coin is beyond me. Obviously, people get them graded and slabbed precisely because there are people out there who will pay a premium.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1502 Posts |
There is one area that I find slabbed modern bullion coins making sense; the chinese gold and silver pandas are getting slabbed more and more.
The pandas carry considerable premium due to mint inconsistencies, rarity, and shady total mintage figures, but there's a LOT of fakes, and very good ones to boot, floating around. Slabbing more so for authenticating makes sense, if not taking away from the fun of educating oneself and hunting for a real panda.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2168 Posts |
I have no idea on how coins are graded. I did see an auction on ebay where a 2009 Double Eagle was graded MS70 and up to $5100 already and I believe there were 2 days left. Just wondering why the big price difference from spot. Anyway if I had one I would sell it and purchase a few ounces of bullion gold today. Why such a price for a 1 oz 2 year old coin? |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1502 Posts |
the price some would pay for the idealized notion of "perfection" in a coin...
+1 on Ed's idea and yours angel2004, trade the plastic of the slabs for more silver/gold
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Replies: 9 / Views: 1,516 |
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Posted 10/24/2011 01:18 am
