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Buying Sterling? Yes, No, Maybe?

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Rest in Peace
biggfredd's Avatar
United States
9104 Posts
 Posted 11/09/2011  6:16 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add biggfredd to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Sterling is 92.5% silver and 7.5% copper. <----- not period.

People getting lower numbers simply don't know what they're buying.
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Ed_B's Avatar
United States
4008 Posts
 Posted 11/09/2011  8:02 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ed_B to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
What I was referring to was the typical, crude (and inexpensive) methods available to someone in an office location.

Oh, OK. Something more like a "spot test" then. Yes, those have their uses but accuracy of analysis usually is not one of them.


Quote:
Sure I could invest in Xray Fluorescence machines, or even set up a wet method on a back bench, but nah.

What, no pocket model Atomic Absorption Spectrophotometer?


Quote:
My point was that various manufacturers, & possibly different batches by the same manufacturer, do vary in purity.

Yes, that is a valid point. Another valid point is that "sterling silver" is defined as being 92.5% silver, so anything that assays as less than that in silver content can still be silver but it cannot be sterling silver.
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silversam's Avatar
United States
58 Posts
 Posted 11/09/2011  8:11 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add silversam to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Another valid point is that "sterling silver" is defined as being 92.5% silver, so anything that assays as less than that in silver content can still be silver but it cannot be sterling silver.


Very true still can be silver.

Someone needs to find a easier method of testing silver purity. Like the acids for gold, there should be like .800 acid, .900 acid and so on. Is there a reason there's not a " at home method" kinda purity test?
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Ed_B's Avatar
United States
4008 Posts
 Posted 11/10/2011  8:14 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ed_B to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The problem with the spot tests is that they are decent at telling you WHAT is there but not very good at telling you HOW MUCH is there.

There are optical tests wherein either a color or a turbidity is developed by the test. In those cases, a comparator (small box with 2 viewing holes and a movable disk containing reference windows of a specific color or darkness). A control is put in one tube while a test sample goes in the other. The disk is then rotated until the control and test windows look the same. These aren't too bad, actually, but they usually require that a small sample be removed from the material to be tested. If often doesn't have to be very much but most sellers do not want even small chunks of material removed from whatever it is that they are selling. Maybe what we need is a good / cheap tricorder?
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trdhrdr007's Avatar
United States
2335 Posts
 Posted 11/11/2011  11:17 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add trdhrdr007 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Yes, that is a valid point. Another valid point is that "sterling silver" is defined as being 92.5% silver, so anything that assays as less than that in silver content can still be silver but it cannot be sterling silver.


I have to agree with that statement. That doesn't change the fact that various governing standards have allowed silver alloys to be called sterling as long as they are within certain tolerances. Manufacturers are well aware of that & act accordingly.

This has also been true of karat marks on gold....at one time gold could test as much as 1/2 karat under what it was marked without causing a legal problem for the manufacturer. An item marked 10K that is actually 9.5k has a gold content that is 5% less than marked. I'm fairly certain that the allowable variance is much smaller now.
Edited by trdhrdr007
11/11/2011 1:26 pm
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Ed_B's Avatar
United States
4008 Posts
 Posted 11/11/2011  7:25 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ed_B to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I'm fairly certain that the allowable variance is much smaller now.

That would be good. There is a good manufacturing practices set of standards called "ISO 9000". Any company that manufactures and wants to export or sell to a company that exports is well advised to meet whatever ISO 9000 standards apply to their industry. Very tight product purity specs are one of the requirements for meeting these standards. Some companies proudly declare their ISO 9000 compatibility on their web site home page and in their product literature. It has become quite a competitive issue in some industries. Don't know how the PM business relates to this but it would be good if they were standardized as to product descriptions and purity.

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silversam's Avatar
United States
58 Posts
 Posted 11/12/2011  12:23 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add silversam to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
at one time gold could test as much as 1/2 karat under what it was marked without causing a legal problem for the manufacturer. An item marked 10K that is actually 9.5k has a gold content that is 5% less than marked. I'm fairly certain that the allowable variance is much smaller now.


If this is true how come I have tested 14k that tested to be 12k? Unless I'm misunderstanding what you were trying to say, then the allowable variance is pretty big.
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trdhrdr007's Avatar
United States
2335 Posts
 Posted 11/12/2011  12:15 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add trdhrdr007 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I don't have the exact information in front of me but here's what I do have. The FTC, which I'm assuming is the federal trade commission, regulates gold & silver purity. It's my understanding that purity is now supposed to be within 4 parts per thousand, with 10 parts per thousand variance allowed if the item has been soldered. Prior to when this legislation came out variances were allowed to be greater. On a side note, in the US it has to be at least 10k to be called gold, while in some other countries they use 8k or 9k in some jewelry.

If you have 14k that tests as 12k one of a number of things could be happening. Your test equipment could be off. The item could have been made prior to the newest regulations. The manufacturer could have cheated. Do a web search for under karated gold....there are several articles out there by various jewelers groups with examples of sellers of underkarated gold. I use an electronic gold tester & have run across items that were underkarated.
Edited by trdhrdr007
11/12/2011 12:17 pm
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Lobby's Avatar
United States
548 Posts
 Posted 11/12/2011  1:38 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Lobby to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'll certainly research the FTC regulations.

But in my time in the scrap gold business, I find that the vast majority of gold I purchase is significantly underkarated. I don't mean the occasional piece, I mean most of them.

Certainly, if I buy gold jewelry from James Avery or Tiffany's, that gold is spot on. But regular stuff sold at jewelry stores? Nah.
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trdhrdr007's Avatar
United States
2335 Posts
 Posted 11/12/2011  2:12 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add trdhrdr007 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
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