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Moffat & CO Bars (Fake)

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calstang's Avatar
United States
12 Posts
 Posted 11/11/2011  3:33 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add calstang to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I know these bars aren't legit, but am curious as to their origination. I found an old ebay listing for one but not much else.

Photos of 2 of the 6 bars are below. They are approximately 1-1/4 x 2-5/8". Weights range from 6 - 9oz. These bars were found in a box along with proof sets from the late 50's / early 60's.

I'm not sure what they are made of. Someone who saw them thought they were silver but from what I've seen of silver ingots, I'm thinking these might be lead.

Just curious as to where these came from. If anyone knows or could point me in the right direction, it would be appreciated.


Moffat-&-CO-Bars-Fake

Moffat-&-CO-Bars-Fake
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D's Avatar
Canada
899 Posts
 Posted 11/11/2011  4:02 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add D to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Moffat & Co are well known for their gold coins. Most of the Big Silver Finds in the west were after 1852 in which I would agree with you that these are most likely fakes.

The best information I could find on Moffat & Co is at this link:

http://www.coinfacts.com/historical..._company.htm

Hope this will help you out...
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calstang's Avatar
United States
12 Posts
 Posted 11/11/2011  4:14 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add calstang to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for the input. The ebay listing I referenced in my original post indicated that these might be Fantasy Bars struck in the late 50's / early 60's. The timing is right given the other items I found the bars with. Just trying to track down who made them (maybe the why) and what they are made of.
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calstang's Avatar
United States
12 Posts
 Posted 11/11/2011  7:45 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add calstang to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Ok, just to update everyone on my search. I came across this article on ingots (a very interesting read) http://www.holabirdamericana.com/am...gotPaper.pdf

Seems there was a series of articles in the Numismatist back in 1979 that discussed Fantasy Ingots (of which these probably are).

My next question to all, outside of visiting ANA's library in Colorado, anyone know where I could access Numismatist magazines from 1979?
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DVCollector's Avatar
United States
10045 Posts
 Posted 11/11/2011  7:48 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DVCollector to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Whenever you see something like this, puporting to be historic 19th C. bullion, it helps to compare to authentic bullion.
An important detail that's often forgotten, even by these bar forgers, is that modern style letter and date punches simply did not exist in the 19th Century. Genuine historic bullion has punches that reflect the styles of the era. Obviously, old punches are very hard to locate today, so fake bullion is usually easy to spot.

Here's a good example...a gold bar that went down with the SS Central America in 1857.

Moffat-&-CO-Bars-Fake
Edited by DVCollector
11/11/2011 8:05 pm
New Member
United States
1 Posts
 Posted 10/11/2013  2:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 1Aardvark1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I too have what appear to be fanstay bars. One is from Moffitt & Co., SF 1852, and the other is: Goldfield Mining Co. 1852. This bar does NOT trace back to the company of same name in NV. Can anyone provide any information regarding these pieces? (pictured)
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Circus's Avatar
United States
3079 Posts
 Posted 10/11/2013  3:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Circus to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Lead or pewter would be a darker grey patina in coloring if they were from the 50's.
Look more like silver from the pic's
This is a silver bar from the exchange silver cert's in the 70's:
Moffat-&-CO-Bars-Fake

Moffat-&-CO-Bars-Fake
Just to give you an idea of the coloring of silver over time, This piece is in a unsealed curio cabinet. For most of that time.
Get a metals testing kit, with the needles, acid and stone most any jewelry supply sells them. will take all guess work out of them.

My kit came with out the fancy wood box and glass bottles but works just as well. or take one into the local silver buying shop and see what they will offer after they test it!
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BStrauss3's Avatar
United States
4592 Posts
 Posted 10/11/2013  3:15 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BStrauss3 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
My next question to all, outside of visiting ANA's library in Colorado, anyone know where I could access Numismatist magazines from 1979?


You could join the ANA (we'd love to have you) and request a photocopy or scan of the article from the library.
-----Burton
50+ year / Life / Emeritus ANA member (joined 12/1/1973)
Life member: Numismatics International, CONECA
Member: TNA, FtWCC, NETCC, EveryCountry (online) coin club
Owned by three cats and a wife of 40+ years (joined 1983)

Author: 3rd Edition of the Sample Slabs book, https://www.sampleslabs.info/
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