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A New Name For Zhang Tao

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Pillar of the Community
swamperbob's Avatar
United States
5362 Posts
 Posted 12/30/2006  6:25 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add swamperbob to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
One of the ebay dealers closely linked to the Beijing forgers is Mr. Zhang Tao. He has posted MANY counterfeits under numerous identities. I have purchased quite a few examples from him and I track and record all his postings as likely forgeries. Recently he has had no new material and I wondered where he went.

Well, I have found him once again. I won this counterfeit 1R coin and used PayPal. The payment record confirms the recipient as ZHANG TAO.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...150073560908

I checked his other offerings and several have appeared before - I can confirm that all but one is a counterfeit and the one possible original I list as "Suspect".

It is absolutely a waste of time to report this to ebay. I first did that in January, 2000. No results yet. I wonder how long it takes for them to do something?
Rest in Peace
Morgan Fred's Avatar
United States
2684 Posts
 Posted 12/31/2006  09:53 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Morgan Fred to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Bob, I would not completely agree that it's a waste of time reporting fraudulent coin auctions to ebay. Over the past three years, I've been regularly and routinely reporting such auctions, most recently (past 6 months?) using ebay's "Report this item" hyperlink near the bottom of each auction.

I would be hard pressed to state how successful these reports have been since it seems to be a hit-and-miss proposition and I do not track many of the hundreds of auctions I've reported. Some auctions which are obvious frauds are permitted to remain while others in which there's a degree of doubt are immediately pulled. A couple generalizations: sellers from China who are peddling obvious fakes tend to have their auctions pulled more often than US sellers peddling the same junk. PowerSellers almost never have their auctions yanked. The point is that reporting does have some effect with ebay, albeit it random, unpredictable, and seemingly fruitless.

I've discussed this issue with the ANA whose advisory relationship with ebay is tenuous and ineffective at best. Their best recommendation for those of us in the trenches is report, report, and keep reporting. Not much else we can do.

Fred

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swamperbob's Avatar
United States
5362 Posts
 Posted 12/31/2006  1:42 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add swamperbob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Fred, I agree. But the big problem is that counterfeits sold with the proper description always seem to get pulled and the outright frauds NEVER do. I always follow up on my reports to see what happens and from my experience only the honest sellers get penalized.

Say what they will - ebay still does not understand the sale of counterfeits. Until they allow posting of LEGAL counterfeits and replicas without penalty only the DISHONEST purveyors will remain.
Rest in Peace
Morgan Fred's Avatar
United States
2684 Posts
 Posted 12/31/2006  2:43 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Morgan Fred to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
ebay talks out of both sides of its mouth when it discusses fraud and its attempts to curb it. As you stated, there is no rhyme nor reason to what auctions of counterfeits they pull and which they leave. Not long ago, there was an auction (I no longer have it watched nor bookmarked) for something like a 1907-S Morgan which the US seller was attempting to pass off as a genuine rare coin (it was indeed very rare with a total mintage of zero). I reported it as did a number of others, yet ebay let it continue and it sold for a fair amount.

And I would have no problem at all seeing (and buying a few) counterfeit coins on ebay if they were correctly attributed with continued reporting of deliberate fraudulent auctions. ebay has it backward and just can't get it right.
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Metalman's Avatar
United States
7123 Posts
 Posted 12/31/2006  3:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Metalman to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Its easy to stand to the sidelines when they make it entirely the sellers responsibility for the auctions.

But in reality and I'm sure one day it will be tried in court that they are a facilitator of criminal activity in the case of these auctions where counterfiet coins are sold last I checked it was still a felony to sell or facilitate the sale or exchange for legal tender any counterfeit currency.

Rick



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Silver Dollar's Avatar
United States
287 Posts
 Posted 12/31/2006  3:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Silver Dollar to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Morgan Fred

Bob, I would not completely agree that it's a waste of time reporting fraudulent coin auctions to ebay.

I agree we must not give up and diligently research and keep a watchful eye and report all fraudulent selling. Coin collecting has to keep the trust and respect that it has earned through years of honest buying and selling. Sure sometimes a coin is not graded correctly as we perceive it, but that is up to the buyer and seller to iron out. Fraudulent, counterfeit and deceptive selling can not be tolerated!
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swamperbob's Avatar
United States
5362 Posts
 Posted 12/31/2006  4:06 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add swamperbob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I agree in reporting FRAUD but definitely not all Counterfeits.

I posted another thread today involving a Contemporary Circulating Counterfeit listed in Riddell's 1845 book. This type of counterfeit is definitely collectable and fully LEGAL since Mexican 8Rs were demonetized in the USA in 1857 and this coin was made over 100 years before the current laws on counterfeit coins were passed. But ebay has cancelled many auctions of this type because the coin is "Counterfeit" and some one has complained.

So I would ask that anyone reporting counterfeits be cautious and report only ILLEGAL coins.
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