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2011 Anniversary Sets PCGS Or NGC

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United States
3 Posts
 Posted 12/05/2011  8:29 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add disney580032 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Does anyone know the approximate percentage of "s"' and reverse proofs that are getting the 70 grade at ngc and pcgs? I heard pcgs is around 25%, whereas ngc is over 80%. Is this true? If so, it seems logical to send your stuff into NGC and go for 3 or 4 70 sets.
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BH1964's Avatar
United States
10982 Posts
 Posted 12/05/2011  10:02 pm  Show Profile   Check BH1964's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add BH1964 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Your estimates are way off. PCGS is around 55% on those coins while NGC is about 70% from what I understand.
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Foxwoods Man's Avatar
United States
4901 Posts
 Posted 12/06/2011  08:46 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Foxwoods Man to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
PCGS 2 weeks ago were grading 63% S-70's and 65% RP-70's

As of Sunday these numbers are down to 53% S-70% & 52% RP-70's

You can draw your own conclusions from those numbers remembering they are all from the same production run and remembering the dealers had their coins in way before us plebs did.

NGC has not published their numbers yet but I have seen a lot of 70's reported.

Real world: Yesterday I got a box of 5 sets back from NGC and only got 2 RP70's and 2 S 70's (13/12 70/69) .

Kind of like it's a random event....
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SteveCaruso's Avatar
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1796 Posts
 Posted 12/06/2011  08:56 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SteveCaruso to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This is why I think grading these sets is silly. It's a -- pardon the pun -- coin toss. Has anyone seen a grade lower than PR-69 yet?
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Foxwoods Man's Avatar
United States
4901 Posts
 Posted 12/06/2011  09:20 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Foxwoods Man to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Well, besides the one "Genuine-Cleaned" graded coin from the set I saw here are the PCGS numbers (NGC not released yet)

PF 1-66, 12-67, 82-68
W 1-66, 4-67, 101-68
S 1-65, 6-67, 59-68
RP 6-67, 84-68
Bullion 2-66, 11-67, 80-68

I hope one person didn't get one of those complete 67 sets
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United States
3 Posts
 Posted 12/06/2011  09:56 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add disney580032 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
On the pcgs message boards the claim of 70's for reverse proof and "s" seems to be more like 25% and for NGC about 80%. This is the feedback from collectors. I'm hearing 70 grades from both companies are a joke with coins showing at least one obvious blemish and still getting a 70. One has to wonder if the 70 grades liberally went to the best customers and now to bring the percentages down they are using the little guy here to make a 70 extremely tough so that the pop reports look more realistic. I think NGC is the way to go and you stand a good chance of getting at least 2 if not 3 70 sets back.
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Foxwoods Man's Avatar
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4901 Posts
 Posted 12/06/2011  10:37 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Foxwoods Man to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
One has to wonder if the 70 grades liberally went to the best customers and now to bring the percentages down they are using the little guy here to make a 70 extremely tough so that the pop reports look more realistic. I think NGC is the way to go and you stand a good chance of getting at least 2 if not 3 70 sets back.


Dude...you sound like me! Seeing the POPs drop it screams of an intentional adjustment and the little guy is paying the bill. It's not rocket science to figure out that the PERCENTAGE of 70's really shouldn't vary that much from week to week. After all the coins in all the sets are from the same batch.

But if the 70 numbers stay high their reputation as a company that it is tight on grading will be questioned....

I commend NGC for sticking with their grading criteria of these obviously high quality coins...a 70 two weeks ago is a 70 a week ago and is a 70 today and tomorrow. Stats do (should) NOT play a part
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United States
3 Posts
 Posted 12/06/2011  11:40 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add disney580032 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I remember a bunch of us talking how hsn had so many 70 sets graded by ANACS so fast. We just laughed and said that's ANACS for you. Myself and many others think of ANACS as nothing more than raw prices anyways, so no big deal, but now NGC won't even publish their numbers each week and pcgs is seeing a sharp decline in their 70 numbers for the 2011 anniversary eagles. What should be an objective court of law where coins are given an objective grade regardless if it is from Modern Coin mart or little john collector in Tennessee seems to be more of a goose chase on who can persuade collector's who havn't sent their anniversary sets in yet to come to them.

I'm going to go with NGC just because of their high percentage of 70's they are given out and the fb from the pcgs forum is more like 20 to 25% are getting 70 grades from pcgs as opposed to 50% like their pop reports state. I just don't want to be the sucker for my 5 sets that end up all getting 68's and 69's by ngc to skew the percentages of 70's relative to 69's to be more in line with what one would think. It makes sense to go with ngc with 70 sets trading at $1500, 3 sets net you $4500 and even if the other 2 are 69's they net you $1800 for a total of $6300 minus $500 in grading fees, which then works out to a total net of $5800. $5800 sure beats the going rate of $3800 for a sealed box of 5. Of course, I'm assuming a 60% ratio of 70's to 69's by ngc, but based on what I'm hearnig from others getting 60% back in 70's would actually be a bad day at NGC. Is anyone esle seeing a nice arbitrage situation by buying 5 set sealed boxes to submit to ngc?
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Foxwoods Man's Avatar
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4901 Posts
 Posted 12/06/2011  12:13 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Foxwoods Man to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
As I said above I got 13 70's out of 25 from NGC in yesterdays box (52%). Another will be at my door in a few hours
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Bryan1315's Avatar
United States
14454 Posts
 Posted 12/06/2011  1:14 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bryan1315 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
One has to wonder if the 70 grades liberally went to the best customers and now to bring the percentages down they are using the little guy here to make a 70 extremely tough so that the pop reports look more realistic

This has been my problem with TPG 70's. I have owned a few over the years and have also owned quite a few 69's (usually for less than mint price) and if the labels are covered I am willing to bet that it would be just a guess on which ones were 69's and which one s were 70's by 99% of the people looking at them at 10x. I have been taken place in an experiment myself where the same coin was sent in by individual and big dealer to a major TPG and the results were in favor of the dealer, so I am sure this happens with these sets also. I would much rather have a 69 for a fraction of the cost in my collection and the only ones that I can see that would ever benefit from a 70 is the ones playing the Registry game and trying to keep their registry sets the highest possible grads that can be accomplished
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