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Legal Question

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3 Posts
 Posted 01/18/2012  3:20 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add banknotereplicas to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
can anyone point in the right direction of selling banknote and stamps replicas. I know you can sell them on ebay and Amazon with a legal disclaimer, but if I want to open a website lets say, to sell them, what information do I need to write or where can I read laws about this so I do this in a legit way. I dont want to violate any laws or portrait anything wrong to possible visitors on the site.

I have call several lawyers for business law, commercial law, intellectual law, and no of them have any idea, they keep sending me to other lawyers and I have given up. thats why I am looking for help on here.

if you can help me find what do I need to do in order to do this legally, I will be eternally grateful.

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sel_69l's Avatar
Australia
21788 Posts
 Posted 01/18/2012  4:39 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I don't think there would be much diference between selling REPLICA coins or banknotes, in terms of legal ramifications. There should not be a problem, if there is no attempt to deceive.

I think the same conditions would apply equally, both positive and negative legally, if an attempt was made to circulate them. This situation brings the idea of deception into consideration.

Maybe somewhat different when selling COUNTERFEIT coins or banknotes on the numismatic or notaphilic markets. I am less sure of a good personal opinion in this case. I am personally happy to build a collection of fake coins, purely for my own education and as a guard of attempted deception against me.

I am not an active collector of banknotes. My collection of 200 or so is for the most part inactive. Same applies to my stamp collection of about 2000 items.

In terms of a good qualified legal opinion, count me out. I'm not qualified.
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Sap's Avatar
Australia
16842 Posts
 Posted 01/18/2012  5:51 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
You've posted this in the US Notes forum, so I assume you're in the US and wanting to sell replica US or foreign notes. Laws in other countries are different. Caveat: My opinions are those of a non-US-resident and a non-legal-expert.

Quote:
I don't think there would be much diference between selling REPLICA coins or banknotes, in terms of legal ramifications. There should not be a problem, if there is no attempt to deceive.

Actually, coins and banknotes are treated differently under US law. There are separate anti-counterfeiting laws covering each of them (coins and notes), but on the issue of replicas, coins are covered by the Hobby Protection Act - all you need to do is make sure COPY is stamped indelibly on the coin somewhere, and you're OK. I'm not entirely sure whether "numismatic item" has been sharply defined by the US courts, and/or whether that definition includes banknotes, but since I've never heard of the hobby Protection Act applying to notes, I suspect not. It might be a good idea to make sure "COPY" is visible on the notes somewhere, just in case.

For stamps and notes, this law seems to be the main go-to place. The law is written more towards reproducing the designs in books, rather than actual replicas, but I understand it still applies. As I read it, replica banknotes have to (a) be in black-and-white (not colour) and (b) be significantly larger or smaller than the real thing. There is a clause there saying the Secretary of the Treasury could issue a permit for colour full-size replicas to be made, but unless you're a foreign bank wishing to educate their staff on US money, you can probably forget about obtaining a permit.

For stamps, it appears that full-size colour replicas are allowed under this law, but you might want to get a more informed opinion over on the stamp forum.

If the replicas themselves do not comply with this law, then they're "counterfeits" under the law, and it's impossible to sell them legally. But if the replicas comply, then you shouldn't have any problems or restrictions on how to sell them. Clearly stating their compliance with the law and providing links to the relevant laws would probably keep your customers (and the Secret Service) happy.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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3 Posts
 Posted 01/19/2012  11:56 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add banknotereplicas to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here is a more specific question. If I sell the product as an image (scan of the bank note or stamp) and advice the customers that what they are buying is the image and they will be able to download it after they pay. Can I get in trouble? this are scans of the original bill I had in my hand. the bills are foreign bank notes from the 1800 and 1900s.
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kenscott's Avatar
United States
787 Posts
 Posted 01/21/2012  02:37 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add kenscott to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
To me, it is Federal Law which regulates such items.

I think the key in this area of law lies with the "intent to deceive." I am not sure exactly which
laws would govern replicas, but I think you would be fairly safe as long as it was clear that what
you were selling were replicas.

The replicas I have saw online often have the word replica physically present on them. I think to sell
replicas without such markings, even if they were advertised as replicas, could lead to trouble seeing
how some might buy them with the intent to deceive.

For them not to be clearly marked would, in my limited opinion, be walking a very thin line.

Maybe searching for legal definers of counterfeit would be a start.

As for lawyers not knowing the answer, did you contact lawyers dealing in Federal law or
those dealing in State law? Seeing that the web is a medium crossing state lines, you really
need to ask a Federal lawyer your question if you have not already.

Kenscott
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erkle's Avatar
1119 Posts
 Posted 01/21/2012  03:07 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add erkle to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
banknotereplicas
Here is a more specific question. If I sell the product as an image (scan of the bank note or stamp)

sounds like you plan to scam people anyway
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trout1105's Avatar
Australia
7096 Posts
 Posted 01/21/2012  03:24 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add trout1105 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Here is a more specific question. If I sell the product as an image (scan of the bank note or stamp) and advice the customers that what they are buying is the image and they will be able to download it after they pay. Can I get in trouble? this are scans of the original bill I had in my hand. the bills are foreign bank notes from the 1800 and 1900s.


Why on gods earth would anyone in their right mind pay for a scan/picture of something numismatically they will never own.
There are countless pictures and images of coins and banknotes available on the web for free! If they are your pictures you own the copyright. So the important.
Part of the answer you seek is "Can I get away with scamming people".
The answer is probably yes if you do this through ebay.
But if you do you certainly won't make any friends on this site.
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The Bill Collector's Avatar
United States
486 Posts
 Posted 01/21/2012  2:37 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add The Bill Collector to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I assume that your just some young kid trying to make a buck, and not a real Paper Money collector, before you get to involved in your new "business" I think you may want to check into e bay's new policy starting in Feb. I don't have all the info at this time but it goes something like this.

No more replicas, copies, or fake coins or Paper Money can be listed for sale. I'm thankful for that new policy as it's a big waste of time for guys looking for the real thing sorting through a whole bunch of the fake stuff.

As to selling photos or scans of them, like others have said, why would anyone want to buy something they can get for free ?
My recommendation, stay in school.
Regards
The Bill Collector
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Libertad's Avatar
Canada
3692 Posts
 Posted 01/24/2012  11:49 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Libertad to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@trout: you make a good point, but perhaps a collector would want a note that has the same feel and texture of a real note. If you think about it in this way, money is indeed funny. Who decides which piece of paper is redeemable for goods and services anyhow?
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