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 Replies: 15 / Views: 6,073 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
6385 Posts |
Hello all, I wonder if we could exchange some stories on successes and failures for crossovers. Probably most collectors would love to buy a low-cost, high-grade coin in a 2nd-tier slab and then get it crossed over to PCGS or NGC at the same grade. I've tried it myself, with mixed results. Examples: SEGS: MS-65 1851-O 3¢ silver cracked-out, graded MS-63 by PCGS.  MS-66 1936 Walking Lib 50¢ crossed to MS-65 by PCGS. MS-63 1916-S Buffalo 5¢ cracked-out, graded MS-63 by PCGS. MS-64 1913-S T1 Buffalo cracked out and rejected by PCGS "environmental damage". MS-60 1932-S 25¢ cracked out and graded MS-61 by NGC.  PCI: MS-64PQ 1912 Liberty 5¢ cracked out and graded MS-64 by PCGS. MS-63 1919-D Buffalo 5¢ cracked out and rejected by NGC (cleaned). ICG: VF-35 1797 10x6 stars $1 crossed at VF-35 by PCGS. PR-65 1939 Mercury 10¢ crossed at PR-65 by PCGS. PR-69 1952 25¢ was not crossed by PCGS at minimum PR-68 grade. ANACS: EF-45 1872-S $1 was crossed at EF-45 by PCGS. If we can collect enough data on crossover attempts, maybe we can all get a better idea of which companies' slabs are more likely to cross to a top-tier slab. By the way, I like PCGS in general but sometimes I think they love to gouge their customers. I sent them an NGC-slabbed 1914 Barber half graded Proof-64 for crossover. They did not cross it (at PR-64) and (of course) they kept the grading fee. I was so sure that was at least a PR-64 coin that I cracked it out and sent it in raw. This time they slabbed it as PR-64 cameo. I'm willing to pay two fees to upgrade to a cameo designation, but it makes you wonder. Anyone have stories they would like to share? |
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New Member
United States
20 Posts |
1929 P Mercury (NNC MS67 FB) crossed to PCGS MS64FB. I'd never want to defend NNC (and others like them) but this one should be 65 at a minimum. I'm now considering where to send it next...
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Valued Member
United States
383 Posts |
My best crossover was a downgrade. I purchased a 1960 proof cent small/large date (FS 024) on e-bay in a ICG PF68CAM holder for roughly $350. I cracked it out and sent it to PCGS and it received a grade of PF67CAM. I enjoyed it for 6 months or a year and listed it on e-bay starting at face value. With 60 seconds left in the auction it was at $800 and it closed at $1,800 which was fair value.
Joe
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Pillar of the Community
United States
651 Posts |
My only story was 1929D SLQ. It was MS65 by ICG, after I sent it to PCGS it was downgrade to MS63  . Luckily, I only paid $110 for it and the MS63 price is $120 so I don't feel too bad.  You folks mind if I start putting this stuff into a spreadsheet so we can get some trend data and I'll repost to this thread once in awhile? |
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New Member
United States
5 Posts |
Edited by flaminio
02/12/2007 1:09 pm
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
6385 Posts |
Ken, that sounds like a great idea. It should be easier to detect patterns if the crossover data is organized in a spreadsheet. Flaminio, your Washington half has had quite a ride! You could almost finalize your TPG rankings based on this one coin: PCI too high, PCGS and ICG to low, and ANACS and NGC "just right". |
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Moderator
 United States
23522 Posts |
Hey, there's a name I've seen elsewhere. Welcome to Coin Community, flaminio. Let's see - If I have it right, your Washington is an MS336. Or, an MS67.2 if you take an average. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
651 Posts |
Edited by Ken_3567
02/12/2007 5:27 pm
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New Member
United States
5 Posts |
Hey, sweet spreadsheet! I dig the curve :).
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Pillar of the Community
United States
651 Posts |
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New Member
United States
7 Posts |
I just sent in five coins for reslabbing to NGC. The coins were from PCGS, PCI and SEGS. I'll let everyone know how they come back.
Interestingly enough, Heritage Auctions only sells PCGS, NGC (NCS), ANACS and ICG slabs. They break out the others and reslab them. Bowers an Merena sell them in their original slab but sometimes with a caution that it states its an MS65 but appears to be an MS63.
Based on my personal oberservations, PCI seems to miss now and then, somethimes by as much 10-15 points in early coppers, both up and down in circulated grades. They also seem to slab early coopers as red that appear washed.
Caveat Emptor. With the really high grades I would personally only buy from NGC or PCGS at high money
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Pillar of the Community
United States
651 Posts |
Sweet. More trending data
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Pillar of the Community
United States
6385 Posts |
I looked up some of my old TPG receipts and found several more cross-over examples: NGC to PCGS attempts: 1890-CC $20 graded AU-55 crossed at AU-55. 1873 3¢ Silver graded PR-64 crossed as PR-64 cameo. 1806 Half Cent graded MS-63 BN did not cross. 1923-S 25¢ graded MS-63FH did not cross. ICG to PCGS attempt: 1893-CC $5 graded MS-61 did not cross. I just sent out some more PCI slabs to NGC for crossover. For most of these I specified that lower minimum grades were OK. I'll report the results as soon as they come back. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
6385 Posts |
Just got back my NGC submission and I was definitely disappointed. The results: PCI slabs: 1909 Lincoln Cent graded MS67RD was not crossed at minimum MS65RB. NGC reported the coin would grade even lower due to "spots". 1871-S Half Dime graded MS-63PL was not crossed at minimum AU-58. NGC says this coin is bent. This was the "dished Half Dime" I posted a thread about on the Main forum back in January. NGC agrees with some forum members that the dished appearance is due to damage, rather than strike-related. 1853-O A&R Half Dollar graded EF-40 (old green PCI holder). This was not crossed due to cleaning. I was very surprised on this one; the coin looks very original and conservatively graded to me. 1882-S Morgan $1 graded MS-66. This coin did cross at specified minimum grade MS-65 and IMHO easily deserves that grade. 1920-S Walker 50¢ graded EF-40. This coin did cross at specified minimum grade VF-35. SEGS Slab: 1878 8TF Morgan $1 graded MS-64 did not cross. NGC said it would grade lower due to "marks and lines". This was another surprise; it looks MS64 and prooflike to me. IGS Slab: 1907 Barber 50¢ graded VF-30 did not cross due to cleaning. This was not unexpected. I figured the grade was solid but cleaning was a possibility. I took a shot. If there is any interest I'll post images of these coins. The good news is I purchased them at prices well below what an NGC or PCGS coin would have cost. The bad news is that for some I may still have paid too much! I should probably cut back on those impulse buys... Still, a worthwhile learning experience. Now I'm waiting to see how PCGS will treat my latest submission of raw coins. |
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Valued Member
United States
364 Posts |
I have sent in several (5) Morgans from PCGS and NGC to ANACS for HOT 50 and TOP 100 designations. All crossed at the same grade which was MS 63. I have 4 others I am sending on my next submission, I'll report when they return from NGC.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
6385 Posts |
Here are the two successes in my latest crossover attempt. I finally got around to taking photos. #1: 1882-S Morgan dollar, originally in a PCI MS-66 holder. NGC thought that was too high but did give it a MS65 grade.   #2: 1920-S Walker, originally graded EF-40 by PCI. NGC crossed it at VF-35.   I'm happy with both these crossovers, since I thought the PCI grades were too generous. It's nice to know that NGC thought they were overgraded by just a single point.  Edited by Jaobler
06/23/2007 8:13 pm
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Replies: 15 / Views: 6,073 |
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Posted 02/11/2007 11:43 am
