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Replies: 34 / Views: 3,150 |
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Valued Member
United States
422 Posts |
This is one of those purchases where you hope you haven't totally messed up.  I've been looking for a Tiberius Denarius for some time now. Most of them blow past 200 bucks, even in shabby condition. This uncleaned Tiberius seemed to be legit and off the radar. My only problem with it was the 'tie's' on the old fellas hair. I couldn't match any with the ones I saw on V coins or ebay (although some were very close). There was not much detail on this coin, other than it was 'silver Tiberius dinarius with a wonderful patina' as it was a UK purchase and the person wasn't a coin dealer, just an Ebayer that sold almost anything. Although when asked she supplied the weight as 3 grams and it was 18mm across. I paid just under $75 for it. Is it real?  I think it will clean up ok if it is. Either that or I just paid for a lesson in fraud detection (actually I can get my money back through ebay if I want, plus she has 100% feedback, so if it doesn't check out, I still will probably get my money back.) Thanks in advance.  
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Moderator
 United States
23731 Posts |
Interesting coin. The obverse legend looks reversed to me. I believe it might be RIC I #28.
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Valued Member
 United States
422 Posts |
So do you think it is real echizento?
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4253 Posts |
I think it is authentic, oxos, but I wonder at the color for a silver coin. I don't think I've seen silver look like this.
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Valued Member
 United States
422 Posts |
Yeah, I thought that too JW. Although I saw a semi-cleaned Tiberius when I was checking this one that had a very similiar color around the details. I guess when I get it, I'll give it the Rochelle salt treatment and see if it cleans up. Hopefully.
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Valued Member
United States
168 Posts |
I believe the weird coloration is due to dirt and the lighting of the photo. It looks like it will clean up nice. Nice coin!
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10045 Posts |
I hope it checks out!  (I didn't see any matches on the fake databases)
Edited by DVCollector 05/09/2012 4:16 pm
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Moderator
 United States
23731 Posts |
I do believe that it's real, just dirty.
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Valued Member
 United States
422 Posts |
Ok then! The experts have spoken positively! Thanks guys! I finally used the JW - Echizento method of buying coins ... wait for a deal! It may be a bit off flan and the detail isn't great, but for under a $100 I think I did ok .... this time.  I'll bring it back when I clean it. We'll see what we really have. Thanks again to all.
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Bedrock of the Community
Australia
21788 Posts |
I would not be too worried about the colour.
Many years ago I bought an almost unrecognisable silver tetradrachm covered with a heavy brown encrustation / patina. My untrained eye at the time suspected that it was not even silver.
The guy I bought it off was, and still is, a good friend of mine, and a well respected coin dealer, now with over 40 years experience.
He said I could buy it for $7 or twice that, after cleaning. OK I thought, $7 wasn't much to loose. The coin spent about 2 minutes in a mixture of sulphuric and hydrochloric acid. I do not know what the dilution rate was. He did, and he knew what he was doing. Both of us knew that the main risk involved was the total loss of the coin.
That didn't happen. The coin turned out to be a silver tetradrachm of Ptolemy 12th, in about VF condition.
Point to be made: Take the Tiberius to a guy who knows what he is doing, and then STILL be prepared to take a risk. That's the way it is when it comes to cleaning ancients.
With your coin I feel that it will clean up very nicely. I have successfully cleaned a few ancients myself, but with this one, I would still not trust myself with the cleaning. Not my coin, and potentially too valuable.
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Valued Member
 United States
422 Posts |
Thanks for the advice sel_691. It might well be a nice coin hidden under all that crustatiion. I am hopeful. These 'Tribute Penny's' coins go for big bucks because of their Bible connection. That is why I bought it anyway. It will be a nice addition to my collection of Biblicals if it cleans up nicely or not ... it still is a Tiberius! Unfortunately I live in a very rural part of Washington state and there is only one very small coin shop near here and he doesn't deal in ancients. Fortunately I have been experimenting with a solution used by the British Museum that is called a Rochelle Salt solution. I have used it on bronzes and it works well. They use it on all their unclean, ancient coins, including silver and gold. You just have to be patient and leave the coin in the solution for only ten to twenty minutes at a time. I'll go slow on the Tiberius you can bet! Thanks again for the advice. I don't want to ruin a most valuable coin.
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Bedrock of the Community
Australia
21788 Posts |
Actually I have seen the equivalent aureus for no more than double the price of a Tribute Penny, and perhaps at only a grade lower.
Both the silver and the gold versions of this design are relatively common. but it is the silver version that has all the fame.
How about one of each? THOSE would be indeed a centre piece in a collection of Roman coins!
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Valued Member
 United States
422 Posts |
Oh yes! That would be quite the center piece of my collection. However, mustering $75 to buy this one tells you where my budget lies!
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Valued Member
 United States
422 Posts |
Got my Tiberius today. Looks like a bronze denarius.  Has a beautiful patina and you'd think it was really bronze. It needs to be cleaned, especially on the reverse, but looks pretty good otherwise. I'll post an image when it comes clean. It weighs 3.24 grams and is 18mm so I'm pretty sure it's silver. They didn't make bronze denarii did they? 
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10045 Posts |
Looking forward to seeing your Tiberius!  Silver, left to tone over centuries, can look similar to bronze. Here's an uncleaned Roman silver denarius with toned silver and great patina. 
Edited by DVCollector 05/22/2012 11:28 pm
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Bedrock of the Community
Australia
21788 Posts |
That is certainly NOT the first time I have seen good Roman silver present like this! The iron color I think has come from the burial material that has surrounded the coin.
Not sure how to remove it, but after accepting professional advice, on a 50 dollar coin, I would be fool enough to clean it myself. For me, it would be worth the $50 educational fee.
I have seen a professional dealer use a mixture of hydrochloric and sulphuric acid to at least leave a silver colour with black highlights in the devices to accentuate the design. You need a reasonably high purity silver coin to start with. Coins of the Severan Dynasty have slightly poorer quality silver, at around a purity of perhaps 60%. +- 10 %.
I have seen a large number of Severan Dynasty denarii on the retail market that appear to be blanched. I feel that I can reasonably conclude that they were all acid cleaned after recovery from the ground.
Acid blanching was used on Australian 50% silver pre decimal coin planchets to make them appear whiter and to surface enrich the metal before striking.
I would certainly NOT use the acid approach on a bronze coin of ANY description.
I am NOT advising that other collectors do the same as me!
Edited by sel_69l 05/23/2012 01:16 am
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Replies: 34 / Views: 3,150 |