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Replies: 17 / Views: 2,927 |
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Valued Member
United States
291 Posts |
For the past few years I have been putting together a Type Set of mint state PCGS and NGC slabbed US coins over at the NGC registry website. Up until recently I have just filled the holes local finds and coin show items. Now I am looking to fill some of the holes I can't find locally, so I'm looking online. Here is my dilemma. Each coin has a level where the price jumps significantly. For example, the coin price increases in a smooth linear manner from MS61 through MS64, then the price doubles at MS65. So far I have been inclined to go for the best looking MS64, rather than paying double for a number on a piece of plastic. What would you do? Is getting the coin in the mint state number after that big price jump important? Thanks.
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Valued Member
United States
123 Posts |
It depends on your preference. There's an idea out there if optimal collector grade. That is the most coin for the money. Often this is around ms64 as ms65 jumps up big time. If having the best registry set matters to you than you may want the top pops and pay up. If having a nice set without investing a fortune is your goal the slightly lower grade may be the better choice. Regardless make sure the coin is attractive and strong for grade. A premium ms64 is often a better choice than an ugly and maybe overgrazed ms65. Personally I vary on this. Some coins I've bought high grades, while some I've bought slightly below to save money. Just depends on the coin and my mood.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
36745 Posts |
There are many times where a nice original MS-63 coin has more eye appeal than a lower end MS-65. Just buy the nicest coin you can afford with best eye appeal you can find.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3184 Posts |
Go for what you can afford and also like the previous poster said, some ms63 or 64s can look just as good as a 65
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Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts |
It would depend on the coin for me. I'm doing a classic commems set where all the coins have the range where the significant jumps occurs. Some of my favorite coins Ill go the extra level up if I can find one a like. With the coins that I am not a huge fan of and may or may not have gotten if I didnt need them to complete the set I will get the best one I can find right before the big jump.
Really its all just personal preference and what you can afford. If you have the money and find a gem in the higher price you really like go for it. If you dont have the money though dont stretch your budget just for the extra level
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Valued Member
United States
359 Posts |
Reading the OP sounds like a thought that has been going through my head as of late. I decided on finding the best lower than MS-65 for some of my type coins. I too have analyzed the price jumps at certain grade levels, to me a price that doubles (or more) between MS grades is hard to justify the higher cost for the coin 1 point higher.
All personal preference. I attempt to find the nicest strike and eye appeal possible for the grade. I also mirror some of the comments mentioned about an MS64 looking better than an MS65. I am sure you know, buy the coin, not the advertised grade.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1208 Posts |
"Buy the coin, not the slab" That is the ongoing mantra here, and it is good advice. I have seen many documented cases of PCGS slabbing fake coins, so there is an arguement to be made that TPG coins are not always better or accurate. It is all about someone's opinion, and that someone might not see 'eye appeal' the same way you do, or even give a number grade that everyone would agree with. I don't have a 'registry set', but I can say that I buy coins that I think look best to me. I might look at them through a loupe when I am thinking of buying, but I place most of my decision to buy a coin based on what it looks like to the naked eye. Often low MS coins look better to the naked eye than high MS coins, IMO.
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Valued Member
 United States
291 Posts |
I agree with the comment that not all TPG coins are accurate. Was looking at a certified $2.5 Indian quarter eagle yesterday in a shop and I was certain I was seeing cleaning marks on the obverse. Why would a reputable TPG slab that coin MS63?
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Pillar of the Community
United States
500 Posts |
I think we all agree that, in principle, the "buy the coin not the slab" mantra sounds great.
But in the practical sense, that is not how the market appears to be working. People still demand, and get, more $ for a fugly 63 than a super eye-pop 62. They trust and "adhere" to the slab rating - in-general. I don't see very many "buyable" slabs outside auctions. Maybe a few at cheapslabs but that's about it! Raw coins are all over the map, but slabbed coins ( at least for the ones I collect ) have a much "higher side" range of pricing by sellers. They all want "retail list" or more. The ugly coins go for retail, problem-free ones for more. And people still buy.
JMHO
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2205 Posts |
I never pay attention to the grade. For me, eye appeal is what it's all about.
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Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts |
Quote:
I think we all agree that, in principle, the "buy the coin not the slab" mantra sounds great.
But in the practical sense, that is not how the market appears to be working. Agreed. Its important to remember that just because you think a 65 is better than a 66 doesn't mean the market will agree. Personally as opposed to buy the coin not the slab, I go more for buy the coin that correctly matches the grade you want. Most of the slabs the coin will agree with but there will always be that percentage of coins that are either very ugly for their grade or fantastic for their grade and I stay away from the low end ugly ones
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
20753 Posts |
So much depends on your future sitation with your collection. IF your collecting for something to reseell in the future, your really and invester. This hobby is a lousy place for investing. Some coins can go up and down in value to easy. Today you may find many dealers selling a certain coin and tomorrow, no one would want one. If your in the market to buy a coin for yourself, do what appears to you to be the best one for your taste. With that in mind, the grade means little. Regardless of MS-60, -64 or -69, The only really, seriously, honestly important thing is do you like it.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3486 Posts |
"Each coin has a level where the price jumps significantly." True for many, many coins.
"For example, the coin price increases in a smooth linear manner from MS61 through MS64, then the price doubles at MS65." True. MS65 has a magical appeal for many people. MS64 is an "also ran."
"So far I have been inclined to go for the best looking MS64, rather than paying double for a number on a piece of plastic." There is much wisdom in these words.
"What would you do? Is getting the coin in the mint state number after that big price jump important?" No. Not to me, and not to coin COLLECTORS!
Coin INVESTORS, on the other hand, have bought into the lie that the "number" is everything. Collectors know, and have always known, that eye appeal trumps numerical grading.
Look, usc96, a very quick history of slabs:
1) "Let's make coins just like stocks. To be traded by people who are not collectors. Why shucks, let's make it so easy that buyers and sellers do not need to even look at coins at all." 2) Keep referring to No. 1 until you understand why this original idea has failed miserably.
Even the best third-party graders are held suspect some 20 to 30 years later. The advice to buy the coin and not the holder is as true today as ever. If your grand parents set you up with a seven figure trust fund and your ego is so fragile that you simply must have the best that money can buy then go for MS70. Most of the rest of us are quite resigned to study the coins and to patiently acquire the best LOOKING coins that we can reasonably afford. I believe that, by your original post, you will agree with most of what I have just written.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
36745 Posts |
Many of today's MS-64's are yesterday's MS-65's. Grading standards have changed and not for the better.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3486 Posts |
To IndianGoldEagle: This is called "grade creep." In my opinion, a much greater danger than a TPG letting a counterfeit pass as genuine. It is INVESTORS, who demand MS65, that drive grade creep. And yes, not for the better.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1704 Posts |
My personal philosophy has always been most coins above MS-63/64 just aren't worth the exorbitant premiums. Is that one point truly worth that much? Especially when you can send the same coin to any one of the grading services more than once and get a different grade each time or they decide it has been "improperly cleaned." If you are buying uncirculated coins in or out of a slab, and if you really like the coin on its merits, strike, eye appeal, etc., and the price is reasonable then buy it. You will have a coin that you will enjoy for a long time.  Ed ANA LM-3175
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Replies: 17 / Views: 2,927 |