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Replies: 41 / Views: 5,612 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
808 Posts |
Quote: I would be very happy to see new gold and silver coins that have no dollar denomination on them at all. Agreed! The Krugerrand, arguably the most successful bullion coin ever, is made just this way. It has legal tender status and no denomination. It's legal value is whatever the current PM price might be. I see no reason why this cannot be replicated for American gold and silver bullion products. In fact, the absence of absurdly low (and irrelevant) denomination values might actually boost the popularity of these products.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4008 Posts |
I'd like to take the Krugerrand idea a step further, have an honest to gosh gold / silver bi-metallic currency standard, and then just price everything in grains or grams of silver and gold. Forget "dollars" entirely. Talk about a historical relic. Weren't "dollars" a Spanish currency from the 1700s? Seems as if some whole new thinking about money is in order.
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Moderator
 Australia
16870 Posts |
Quote: ...have an honest to gosh gold / silver bi-metallic currency standard... "Bimetallic standards", with a fixed price ratio of silver to gold, are never stable, because the two metals are not mined at the same ratio all the time and because demand for each of them varies. You'd have to pick one metal, and that would be your standard. Quote: and then just price everything in grains or grams of silver and gold. Forget "dollars" entirely. Talk about a historical relic. Weren't "dollars" a Spanish currency from the 1700s? Seems as if some whole new thinking about money is in order. What you're suggesting isn't "new thinking". It's old thinking - really, really old, like pre-500 BC, way back when coins were invented. The system was dysfunctional back then because nobody could be trusted to maintain the standard. Unscrupulous private individuals, merchants and moneylenders would dilute the gold and silver pieces they used in commerce, or simply use dishonest weights. Having the government, as a neutral third party, certify the weight and purity of the pieces of metal (by turning the metal into "coins") helped a little, but even governments cannot be trusted to maintain the standards when times are tough. Short of issuing everybody with a three-decimal-place balance and a portable XRF analyser to "keep them all honest", I can't see any way of making such a system work better today than it did back then.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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New Member
Canada
12 Posts |
If the "legal tender" value ever goes under the bullion value of these coins. Like say they find another billion ounces of gold somewhere deep under ground tanking the demand due to the high supply making that one ounce gold buffalo of yours worth a lot less then its $50 face value. No U.S or Canada bank would give you that $50 back in real money for it. It is at the discretion of the banks if they will accept bullion currency as real money. This collector in Canada learned that the hard way. He tried to exchange a $20 half ounce silver coin worth about $14 melt now at several banks and none would accept the "legal tender". http://www.thestar.com/business/art...the-hard-way
Edited by smith23 07/05/2012 11:18 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1454 Posts |
Interesting read, smith. Wonder if US banks have similar regs, not that it's much of an issue here since the banks would be on the net-gain side of the transaction, anyway.
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Valued Member
United States
80 Posts |
All US bullion coins are legal tender and redeemable for all debts for denomination they bear. Check out 31 USC 5112 it is the law which allows the bullion coins to be minted and it states that the bullion coins are legal tender, which probably explains why the face value of these coins are so low, so that the face value will always be less than the PM value.
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
2624 Posts |
Interesting topic, and great video (I found that amazing really, I find it hard to believe that the employee of mcdonalds dint simply accept the dollar coin and replace it with a dollar from her pocket...but I guess they sew up their pockets :S)
I was going to mention the Kruggerand, I was told that was originally developed as a way around being taxed on your money if you move it abroad...hence no face value.
The removal of the gold/silver certificate and back in the 1990's Englands sale of the gold that backed our pound really was a step backwards in my opinion. Those notes that all of us work so hard for really are an abstract representation of wealth and could become valueless overnight in theory.
As for legal tender it is up to a vendor to accept or decline custom as he pleases. In Scotland they have banknotes which are not "legal tender" but merely considered "acceptable tender." That is due to multiple banks producing a few varieties of their notes. In law the only legal tender in Scotland is the coinage of England! This once went to court though when someone would not accept settlement of a debt in notes but instead demanded pound coins. The Judge declared that the notes were acceptable and if the person owed the money would not accept them then it was not the debtors problem.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1454 Posts |
Quote: Those notes that all of us work so hard for really are an abstract representation of wealth and could become valueless overnight in theory. At that point, we'd all be digging foxholes and dodging bullets here in the States. Our suddenly worthless dollars would be the least of our worries. ;)
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
3692 Posts |
Bimetalism fails all the time. One only has to look at the recent change in the Canadian $2 coin, from a pure nickel and bronze to a steel with plated copper. Thumbs up for cheap money.... I'm starting to believe that physical money is only a representation of computerized digits.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
808 Posts |
Quote: I'm starting to believe that physical money is only a representation of computerized digits. That's certainly the thinking that our banking system is desperately trying to promote: physical cash as an anachronism of the old economy. I suppose the less real and tangible they can make us believe our money to be, the easier we'll swallow our bloated, wasteful debt-driven new economic reality. Personally, I'd gladly give up the convenience of digital cash just to see some shred of intrinsic value restored to our monetary system.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4008 Posts |
Quote: physical cash as an anachronism of the old economy. Yeah. Of course, that was from a time when our economy actually worked and was not a house of cards created by the cabal of banksters and politicians. Quote: I suppose the less real and tangible they can make us believe our money to be, the easier we'll swallow our bloated, wasteful debt-driven new economic reality. Well, that's just the thing. The Fed / gov folks KNOW that our currency is virtual already. They zap it into existence out of thin air and know that it's intrinsic value if nil. Quote: Personally, I'd gladly give up the convenience of digital cash just to see some shred of intrinsic value restored to our monetary system. You, me, and virtually everyone on this web site, I am sure, would agree. If US currency was even partly backed by PMs, a lot of our financial problems would be improved if not solved outright. PM backing provides a terrific block to run-away printing, since they cannot wave a pen and create any PMs. They can are are printing as much fiat as they want, however.
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Replies: 41 / Views: 5,612 |