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 Replies: 41 / Views: 5,608 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
500 Posts |
Since they aren't "legal tender" or whatever then why put a dollar figure on them at all? And if you are going to then why not make it at least come reasonably close to the market value of the PM at that time(start of the year it was minted)? Like ASE should maybe be $20/$25 now and for the last few years. Gold 1 oz. buffaloes probably should say $1,000 instead of a bogus $50 that has no meaning or basis in reality and not even a "historical context" as $50 coins were never minted that I know of. I think a coin having $1000 on it would be cool. Plus later on there is some "approx value at the time" historical perspective. Stamping $50 on a coin that goes for over $1600 immediately seems silly to me. Or $1 on a silver coin when spot is in the 20's. I know it fluctuates and all, but to the nearest $10 increment on silver and $1000 on gold maybe is close enough IMO.  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5841 Posts |
My favorite are the 5 ounce ATB "coins" that have a face value of $0.25.  |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
36678 Posts |
I believe the U.S. coins ASE, AGE were set by act of Congress. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1391 Posts |
On the other hand, since they aren't "legal tender" or whatever who cares what they put on them?
If there isn't a dollar amount then they are not coins. Which changes their status.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
808 Posts |
Each of the modern American bullion coins (gold, silver, and platinum) are each authorized by an act of congress. Each act specifies the physical characteristics, PM content, legal tender status, and dollar value of each coin.
The $1 denomination on American silver bullion makes sense from a historical perspective since the old "pre-Ike" silver dollars had this monetary denomination.
However, things seem a bit more contrived when talking about the American Gold and Platinum Eagle coins. It's a stretch, but the $50 on the 1 t oz AGE might be seen as slightly analogous to the old $20 Double Eagle coin. And, of course, the $100 on the 1 t oz American Platinum Eagle has no historic predecessor so it's valuation seems to be solely based relative to the AGE and the fact that platinum used to be substantially more expensive than gold.
That's my though, at least. There could be other reasons for why these coins have the dollar denomination they do.
Edited by coinwatch
06/29/2012 11:35 am
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1502 Posts |
Makes no sense at all besides the distinction between coin and medal.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
808 Posts |
I agree it all seems quite arbitrary.
Edited by coinwatch
06/29/2012 12:11 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2589 Posts |
Part of the reason the values are low on bullion coins is that it causes the seniorage profits for the mint to be high. Australia in the past has issued small $200 gold coins. The last time gold took a massive dip, these coins were worth more face value than they were for their gold melt value. The result was that people turned them into banks and the Australian government lost some of the seniorage money it had made because coins were being redeemed.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
36678 Posts |
Same happened with the Canadian 1973-76 Olympic Coins. I remembered buying these on the secondary market for face value. Can't remember for sure but I think the Canadian government demonetized these. Any of you up north know if this is true?
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Bedrock of the Community
Australia
21786 Posts |
A 'coin' without a mark of value is not a 'coin'. Typical examples are found in Perth Mint NCLT bullion issues, where the mark of value adds to the claim that they are in fact, Legal Tender, that is also recognised as such under the law. There are exceptions however, most easily found in circulating British coinage of the 19th Century. So far as bullion issues are concerned, I don't think that it matters, as long as the weight of the 'coin' is noted. I use the word 'coin' in quotes, because a medal with the weight noted can still be a medal. The definition between the terms 'coin' and 'medal' can become blurred. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7840 Posts |
I've asked this before; Why does the First Spouse 1/2 ounce gold coins ONLY have a "face value" of $10.00 when other 1/2 ouncers have a "face value" of $25.00?   Edited by oih82w8
06/29/2012 3:11 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
808 Posts |
@oih82w8 - Great question; it's been asked and answered a couple of times before, but it's worth discussing again.
As I recall from previous posts here on CCF, the US has two "standards" or traditions for gold coinage.
The first is based on the original "gold eagle" coins that were taken out of circulation (through confiscation) in 1933. The gold eagle was approximately 1/2 ounce (0.48375) of gold in a coin consisting of 90% gold and 10% copper. Face value of this coin was $10.
The second standard is what's used for the modern American Gold Eagle bullion, the specifications of which were largely influenced by the South African Krugerrand. A similarly sized 1/2 troy ounce AGE contains a full half ounce of gold in a slightly over weight coin containing 91.67% gold, 3% silver, and 5.33% copper. Face value of this 1/2 t oz AGE is $25.
For US gold commemorative coins like the First Spouse series, the US mint uses the original "gold eagle" standard.
This may not be exactly right, but I think I'm close to the correct answer.
Edited by coinwatch
06/29/2012 3:58 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7840 Posts |
Interesting...the First Spouse is gold bullion 0.9999 fine. (as stated on the reverse legend). Not sure about the Modern Eagles, but I would think that they would be the same purity or are they 0.900?
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Pillar of the Community
United States
808 Posts |
Well, that's needlessly confusing, isn't it.  Yup, the First Spouse is a whole different critter in terms of gold content. That seems particularly odd given that the also currently shipping 2012 Star-Spangled Banner Commemorative gold coins do (mostly) conform to the "gold half-eagle" specification (approximately 1/4 ounce of gold) including a 90% gold/10% alloy and a $5 face value. Edited by coinwatch
06/29/2012 4:24 pm
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Valued Member
Canada
207 Posts |
Would having a legal tender face value result in much more serious counterfeiting consequences? Thus ASEs would be more widely accepted because you are more guaranteed in their authenticity.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
808 Posts |
Quote:
Not sure about the Modern Eagles, but I would think that they would be the same purity or are they 0.900? On this much we're clear: The American Gold Eagle bullion coins are .9167 (22 karat) gold coins as specified by an Act of Congress. This gold content is identical to that of the identically sized Krugerrand. Now, the American Buffalo coins are .9999 (24 karat) gold coins, just like the First Spouse coins. I have heard that the US Mint started minting it's .9999 gold bullion and commemorative coins to more successfully compete in the marketplace with other popular pure gold coins like the Canadian Gold Maple. Edited by coinwatch
06/29/2012 4:40 pm
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Replies: 41 / Views: 5,608 |
Posted 06/29/2012 10:52 am
