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Does Longacre Doubling Add Value To A Coin?

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cinemabon's Avatar
United States
154 Posts
 Posted 07/11/2012  5:28 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add cinemabon to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I have several pre-1888 coins that have what appear to be double die errors. However, recently I was told they were "Longacre" and have no value - another case of buyer beware?
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amida17's Avatar
United States
4897 Posts
 Posted 07/11/2012  5:38 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add amida17 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I guess it is a case of as a buyer you better have some knowledge. Sellers should have the same knowledge. Unfortunately some do not even know the differences with Longacre doubling. Arm your self with the facts and count it as a good learning experience. Here is a bit of info on Longacre....http://www.numissociety.com/content...A-discussion

BTW, It is Doubled Die....not Double Die
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robbudo's Avatar
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2757 Posts
 Posted 07/11/2012  9:41 pm  Show Profile   Check robbudo's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add robbudo to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
longacre doubling is often more common than to not have it. So, no premium unless you can sell it as a doubled die so a less experienced person.
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cinemabon's Avatar
United States
154 Posts
 Posted 07/12/2012  2:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add cinemabon to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
You say its common but most of my coins don't have it, just some. If it was so common, why isn't it mentioned more. I've been in coin collecting since I was a boy but never heard of it until I logged into this forum and started hearing of it. As to that, this forum has taught me a great deal, more than my father taught me.
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Conder101's Avatar
United States
17884 Posts
 Posted 07/13/2012  2:58 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Usually the only time it is discussed is when someone thinks they have found a doubled die. Probably it isn't discussed more because most collectors are only intereested in dates, mintmarks, and grades and don't have much interest in the other features on the coin. Variety collectors don't have much interest in it because it isn't a variety feature. Since it can change radically in appearance over the life of the die, and it appears on so many dies, it isn't a good feature for identifying a variety. (doesn't make a good die marker) And finally error collectors aren't that interested in it because it isn't an error but rather a characteristic of how the dies were prepared during a certain time period. The only people who have any real interest in it are those numismatists interested in the technical operations of the mint.

Even the name Longacre doubling is a relatively recent name for it. When I first wrote about it back around 1986 as far as I know it had no name at that time. I was writing about Shield nickels and described it as a shouldering around the features and lettering of the dies. It was obviously deliberate and I speculated that it was a feature done to the punches to indicate that the punch had been driven into the Master die sufficiently. When you saw the shouldering starting to appear you were deep enough. It would also act as a visual aid in basining the die. When the traces disappeared your field curvature was right and the recesses in the die were still deep enough (You hadn't overpolished). I described those dies were it was still visible as being unfinished. The pressure on the die shop at the end of the Civil War was extreme due to the huge number of dies needed for the copper nickel coinage (And these are also the coins most commonly seen with Longacre doubling.) The number of dies needed for the cent, Three Cent and nickel five cent coins was huge and the shop could not keep up and many dies were sent to the presses without sufficient polishing to remove the outlines. The reason These shoulders were used in the first place I believe is because Chief Engraver Longacre was NOT a die sinker. he got the office through political patronage and not his skill as a die engraver. He was a flat plate engraver trained for banknote and document printing. He was out of his element when it came to the creation of coinage dies.

The name Longacre doubling was created I think by Ken Potter and was not in use until the mid to late 90's. At least I don't believe I have seen any reference to it by that name before that time. Longacre doubling seems appropriate because it didn't appear until after the first coins designed by Longacre were produced, and it is most ofter seen on coins he designed. (Although once it started appearing on his coins it also started appearing on coins by other designers, but never as commonly and usually only after the design had been "tweaked" by the engraving department. After Longacre died the doubling gradually started disappearing. The last cases I know of are on cents of 1907 with possibly some in 08 and 09. In other words the shouldering remained on master hubs of Longacres designs long after his death, but for those designs tweaked or changed after his death Longacre doubling does not appear.
Edited by Conder101
07/13/2012 3:08 pm
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United States
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 Posted 07/14/2012  10:32 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jmkendall to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks Condor, that was very interesting!
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cinemabon's Avatar
United States
154 Posts
 Posted 07/14/2012  11:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add cinemabon to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thought provoking and puzzling. I'm wondering why no one has thoroughly researched this subject. With an anomaly so common but its origins a mystery, some intelligent coin collector somewhere should publish documentation to make its classification official... a future Overton perhaps?
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TreasHunt's Avatar
United States
2540 Posts
 Posted 07/17/2012  2:12 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TreasHunt to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
in a word:
No (value)

oops, that is two words.
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