Older Circulated Cleaned ? Coins - Coin Community Forum

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Author	Replies: 8 / Views: 1,521
Indian1 Pillar of the Community United States 3640 Posts	Posted 07/14/2012 4:11 pm This is something that has been on my mind for years now. Now more than ever it seems that just about every raw coin that is 100 to 150 plus years old is stated or slabbed to have been cleaned. Now this is a really broad subject but wanted to start it off. I think the average mindset with either dealers or graders (Tpg's) as well as most others is that if a circulated/worn coin has some darker areas in the small field recesses away from the devices that is has been cleaned. I'm not talking about any coins that have obviously been polished or chemically cleaned. Could the higher areas that are prone to wear be just that. Normal wear ? and not cleaning. I think so on most. What are the determining factors on cleaning ? Cleaned, (that alone could have a hundred diff. causes) improperly cleaned, harshly cleaned etc. And who determines them. Does the grader seated at his/her desk do both the grading and cleaning determination. I think the cleaning aspect is just as complex as the grading aspect. If a VF 150 yr. old coin with normal wear, say being handled, carried around in pockets etc. has some normal rub is that cleaned ?. Technically any coin that came in contact with water, dirt or anything for that matter could be said to have been cleaned. Do not want to make this first post a Novel here but maybe you get my drift and can fill in as we go along. As well as myself doing the same. I just see a lot of nice non BU coins out there that are scoffed at in the raw. Not me, the coin I personally (not bragging here either) have had some knock down drag out brawls with dealers and others about some raw (at the time) coins that I have owned, sold and kept etc. over the years. Any and all stated CLEANED. They were all DEAD Wrong. At least as far as the slab later stated. That also (TPG's is another subject on the subject) Worm can is now open. Report this Post to the Staff

basebal21 Bedrock of the Community 13014 Posts	Posted 07/14/2012 5:59 pm It is an interesting question and that very well could be the case I guess its also possible that someone got cleaning stuff on their hand and used the coin afterwards at some point. Personally I do think a lot of them have been cleaned as people get greedy seeing the type of money they could get if they could make the coin a few grades higher. I know that PCGS has a new computer system that is supposed to be able to detect substances on the coin but I am not sure if it can only detect recently or at all and think that its only used for their plus service. But older coins may be over labeled as cleaned, at the same time though it is logical to assume more of them have been. With their age most have had countless numbers of owners and really only one of them along the line would have had to try it especially back before the TPGs came around. Id imagine way back in the day it was a lot easier to fool people and overall eye appeal meant more than cleaning did even if they did happen to know. But if you can make money from doing it people will be trying to get away with it Report this Post to the Staff
Tjmcman Valued Member United States 225 Posts	Posted 07/14/2012 6:17 pm Why is cleaning a coin a damaging practice? Report this Post to the Staff
Imohtep Valued Member Canada 321 Posts	Posted 07/14/2012 6:30 pm I've always thought this subject interesting... I think it is true, any circulated coin 100+ years old has been "cleaned" at some point..whether it be someone using their thumb/finger to rub some dirt off, running it under a water tap or using chemicals/tools. Until we know exactly WHY a TPG classifies a coin as cleaned, we won't have an answer. Would you classify a coin as "cleaned" if I ran it under some water to remove some dirt?...how would you know I ran it under some water? What if the lining in my pocket rubbed against a coin in my pocket and rubbed the dirt right off it? is this considered cleaned? There are WAY too many factors to consider when trying to determine if your 100+ year old coin was cleaned or not..you are better safe then sorry to just consider every coin that isn't a proof to have been cleaned at some point or another in some way. Edited by Imohtep 07/14/2012 6:42 pm Report this Post to the Staff
basebal21 Bedrock of the Community 13014 Posts	Posted 07/14/2012 6:34 pm Quote: Until we know exactly how a TPG classifies a coin as cleaned, we won't have an answer. Would you classify a coin as "cleaned" if I ran it under some water to remove some dirt?...how would you know I ran it under some water? What if the lining in my pocket rubbed against a coin in my pocket and rubbed the dirt right off it? is this considered cleaned? The bigger question may be even if the TPGs dont consider those practices to be cleaned, is there really any way to tell the difference between that happening and someone actually cleaning the coin? Report this Post to the Staff
Indian1 Pillar of the Community United States 3640 Posts	Posted 07/15/2012 12:21 am Tjmcman Cleaning a coin intentionally lowers it's value. It may look nice but after cleaning it is not as it should normally be. Report this Post to the Staff
basebal21 Bedrock of the Community 13014 Posts	Posted 07/15/2012 12:27 am Quote: Why is cleaning a coin a damaging practice? What indian said. It also usually damages the coin or adds a substance to the surface which both lower the value. Some methods are easier to detect than others When you think about it its basically a method of fraud. You are trying to trick people into thinking its better than it really is. If the coins only value is its melt value like junk silver than it really doesn't matter as long as you dont do anything that lowers the coins weight. Edited by basebal21 07/15/2012 12:28 am Report this Post to the Staff
weavus135 Pillar of the Community United States 539 Posts	Posted 07/15/2012 01:16 am I guess I'm not really convinced that someone 75 years ago when they ran across this, then 25+ year old coin, cleaned it assuming they would be defrauding someone someday or even the next owner. My guess is that they did it because it looked nicer. Report this Post to the Staff
just carl Bedrock of the Community United States 20753 Posts	Posted 07/15/2012 10:01 am Many reasons old coins have been somewhat cleaned. I remember way, way back how many people used to spit on a coin, then rub it to see better what it was. If someone had a coin collection and showed it to people, the most common statement was those are so dirty, why don't you clean them. And most kids did just that. The most common thing to do was to make a paste of Baking Soda and water and rub the coins with that. And yes, mostly the really older coins since they looked like the dirtiest ones. My Dad had a gas station and by the end of the day almost all his change had grease on them. Thoes were naturally dumped into a can of gas to clean them. There was a coin store not far from where I lived and the dealer used to tell me how much time he spent cleaning coins to make them sell better. No one wanted to buy a DIRTY coin. Cleaning coins just used to be the thing to do. Report this Post to the Staff
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