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Finally Bought My First Ancient

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Pillar of the Community
DavidUK's Avatar
United Kingdom
2624 Posts
 Posted 08/27/2012  4:34 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DavidUK to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you all... yes I may buy a tetradrachm at some stage but at present I am only working part time and money is a little tight.

My next thought is a Mesembria, thrace, corinthian helmet with wheel reverse...(my girlfriend lives close to where that used to be and I love that design. I am not sure what the META wheel is supposed to represent though) also a Hadrian silver denarius would be nice (relavent to me as he built a wall acros the top of my country) I would also like something from Sinope (its where the word cynic comes from, Diogenes is one of my favourite characters from the past) Rome wasn't built in a day though...I decided I would prefer to purchase something nice every now and then than lots of meaningless coins.

I also wondered what the significance of the Bee is on my coin (I wouldn't have recognised it as a Bee unless told)

Thanks for your warm welcome :) Maybe one day I will have many nice coins or maybe not...its hard to tell what the future may be.
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Ancientnoob's Avatar
United States
5155 Posts
 Posted 08/27/2012  4:59 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ancientnoob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
When it comes to ancients there is no meaningless coins :-) but anywho cudos david, cudos.
Valued Member
Canada
472 Posts
 Posted 08/27/2012  5:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Dionysos to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Again, be very careful with the Mesembria coins, facing helmet / wheel. These have been forged a lot...
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DavidUK's Avatar
United Kingdom
2624 Posts
 Posted 08/27/2012  5:24 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DavidUK to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Well Thrace (Bulgaria) seems to like a forgery (not saying they are bad people but when you walk down the streets they are openly selling RayBan glasses for about $5 so it seems that anti-forgery law isn't really enforced there)

Anyway, if I purchase from V-coins pressumably its a pretty safe bet that I will be getting the real McCoy?

Something like this:

Finally-Bought-My-First-Ancient

Also as a rule of thumb would forgeries be badly centered? Because with this particular design I am not so fussed if only half the helmet appears or the wheel is a little near the edge of the coin.

My first coin made me research the 12 labours of Heracles, so now I know why he always has the lion skin :) But I still want to know about the Bee on my Drachm if anyone has an answer.
Pillar of the Community
United States
1549 Posts
 Posted 08/27/2012  5:30 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add dougsmit to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
At least now I know why the forgers picked the types they did. They are extremely popular. Being a VCoins dealer used to mean more to me than it does now so I'd still not buy this type except from a very trusted dealer.
Valued Member
Canada
472 Posts
 Posted 08/27/2012  5:41 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Dionysos to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The bee is a mint mark, i. e. it says where the coin was minted and when (short explanation), but there's other variants (style) that should also be taken into account... (long explanation)

2 of my drachms from Sardes, with a bee...

Finally-Bought-My-First-Ancient
Finally-Bought-My-First-Ancient

And one from Magnesia, also with a bee...

Finally-Bought-My-First-Ancient

As for the Mesembria coin, I agree with Doug. There are many, many fakes, centered or not...

Finally-Bought-My-First-Ancient

Cool type but I would not buy one personnaly, too dangerous
Bedrock of the Community
DVCollector's Avatar
United States
10045 Posts
 Posted 08/27/2012  6:11 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DVCollector to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I share everyone's sentiments and congratulations!
Your pick is a better overall coin than what I posted for £ 106--well done!
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stevex6's Avatar
3352 Posts
 Posted 08/27/2012  6:26 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add stevex6 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
DavidUK => hmmm, I admit that buying a coin that is not well-centered may be a good indication that it is not a fake, but who wants to buy a nasty ol' coin that isn't well centered?

... I have zero idea if this coin is fake or real, because it is currently in California, being poured-over by David Sear (man, I hope this coin is okay, for it cost as much to buy as it it is for being authenticated)

Thrace, Mesembria
Silver Diobol
450 - 350 B.C.
10.10 mm
1.16 grams
Obverse: Facing Helmet
Reverse: META within the spokes of a radiate wheel

Finally-Bought-My-First-Ancient

=> hey, don't judge me (I have faith that with the authentification whoever is fortunate enough to inherit my coins can easily unload my coins for a good price) ... I have nightmares every now and then that "inheritor-X" thinks that there is no way that these coins are actually real so he/she is gonna sell the entire album for $5 (marked "Interesting Crafts")

...

Edited by stevex6
08/27/2012 6:35 pm
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DavidUK's Avatar
United Kingdom
2624 Posts
 Posted 08/27/2012  7:10 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DavidUK to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I take your points, and maybe this mesembria coin is something that it better I buy in the flesh... I do find it very attractive, so there is no surprise that people counterfeit it but deciding I cannot buy one because of that is like handing the counterfeiters a victory.

This is the same with watches, the Cartier Tank Francais or the Breitling cronograph are two commonly faked watches. When I dealt with watches I was not scared to buy and sell these though...I knew enough to never purchase a Brietling without opening the case and inspecting the movement, and I knew enough to know a real from a fake cartier.

The difference with this Mesembria coin is that maybe I don't have the knowledge at present, maybe that will change.

As for what I was saying about the centering of the coin, my first example that I posted a picture of is still a beautiful coin in my opinion regardless that the helm is not perfect centre. It think that the design of the corinthian helm is iconic and beautiful in an agressive manner, and aestetically I have no problem with it being off central because it is a symetrical shape and it is obvious what the other edge would look like. (quite different to the Drachm where I wouldn't want to lose half of Heracles face)

Thanks for the explaination of the Bee... I don't yet have a book on Greek coins, no doubt I will purchase one in the future.

Anyway, I will not rush my next purchase, and as I see from perusing Vcoins there are many beautiful ancients...I must say I find the Greek coins more interesting that the Roman ones, which is not what I would have expected.

I have much to learn in this new field...I have always loved coins and in this past month I added my first hammered coin and my first ancient one, maybe I was correct to think milled modern coins are superior but what these old coins represent is far more interesting and far more educational than a modern coin whether it be gold or more valuable it has no bearing on it.
Edited by DavidUK
08/27/2012 7:17 pm
Bedrock of the Community
sel_69l's Avatar
Australia
21788 Posts
 Posted 08/27/2012  7:11 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Both Dionysis and dougsmit are right. You can't be too careful when it comes to the Bulgarian forgeries, they are very good at their game.

I really like to examine all pricey ancient coins in hand before deciding to buy, except if I know and trust the dealer.

You can still have a lot of fun with lesser valued late Roman bronzes without such precautions. They are the equivalent of the equivalent of the penny collectors of the U.K. and the U.S.

I would suggest that you buy some Bulgarian forgeries, PROVIDED THAT they are sold to you as forgeries. You need to now what to look for, and you need to examine them closely to gain the experience. Even the best dealers will respect your experience if you can prove it.
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DavidUK's Avatar
United Kingdom
2624 Posts
 Posted 08/27/2012  7:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DavidUK to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for all your advice... I know you guys know your subject better than I, and also that a little knowledge can be dangerous so I will be extremely cautious and not rush like a bull in a china shop (even if I know that is in my nature)
Valued Member
Canada
472 Posts
 Posted 08/27/2012  7:30 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Dionysos to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
"I must say I find the Greek coins more interesting that the Roman ones"

New to ancients and you already have superior taste
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Bing's Avatar
United States
4253 Posts
 Posted 08/27/2012  7:45 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bing to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
New to ancients and you already have superior taste


A matter of debatable opinion. While Greek coins can be very beautiful, so can Roman coins. And, as I have said before, much easier to read and attribute for this old guy anyway.
Valued Member
Canada
472 Posts
 Posted 08/27/2012  7:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Dionysos to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
"A matter of debatable opinion."

If it wasn't for greeks, there wouldn't have been romans. It's an archetype. Romans just copy, reproduce... and rename for most parts
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Windchild's Avatar
Canada
1411 Posts
 Posted 08/27/2012  8:04 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Windchild to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Beautiful Drachma!
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