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 Replies: 16 / Views: 2,827 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1436 Posts |
Looks like this Patriotic CW token has been overstruck onto another token. You can see it in several places... in between the date numbers, in the field between the date & UNITED, under the UNI in UNITED (looks like a Y_O?), and on the reverse under the street name. Anyone have any idea as to what the original token was? Here is the E-Bay link where it will be easier to see... http://www.ebay.com/itm/1863-H-M-La...p=true&rt=nc  Edited by Dave H
09/15/2012 7:28 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3345 Posts |
Die clashes, and die cracks I think. And slightly misaligned die. Lots of stuff here, awesome coiN!
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Pillar of the Community
United States
731 Posts |
I concur. Cracked die(s), and off-center strike.
Despite that, it is in AU or greater grade.
Edited by CheetahCats
09/16/2012 12:20 am
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
1436 Posts |
CheetahCats, what part of the die do you think would've caused the flower shaped impression betwen the "U" & 1? I thought of a die clash, but there are impressions that don't correlate to what the die looks like...
Edited by Dave H
09/18/2012 12:52 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1143 Posts |
I think the flower shaped impression it the & sign negative from a clashed and rotated die.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3253 Posts |
That was my first thought on seeing the pic, but then the ampersand would have to be about 90 degrees rotated relative to the field. Unless the clash was WAY off center. Also, to be the ampersand, it doesn't look to me to be in mirror-image.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1436 Posts |
When I get home I'm going to try posting an extreme close-up of the area in question to see if anyone can determine what it is...  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1436 Posts |
Here is a cropped pic of the token. Hopefully can see a little more detail. In addition to the shape between the "1" & "U", there is a "Y" under the "U" and an "O" under the "I". I don't see how those letters could be from a die clash since the letters don't correspond to their locations on the reverse die... Also there is a second "8" between the "1" & "1" in the date that doesn't look like it's shaped the same  Edited by Dave H
09/19/2012 8:37 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
731 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3253 Posts |
Agreed. Clashed. Question is, with what? There were many types of Civil War store card tokens; more than the number of coin presses. I submit this private coiner clashed this die with one from another of his customers. We're looking for a business name that ends in Y, probably followed by "& Co." The "o" in "Co" is probably what we are seeing between the 1 and 8. How about this candidate? Also a New York business: http://shigitatsu.com/CWT/NEW%20YOR...1aREVxf+.jpg |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1436 Posts |
Possibility... The token should arive tomorrow per USPS tracking. I'll get a better look at it w/ my loupe & hopefully get a better idea what's under the date & UNITED. Will let you know what I find.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1436 Posts |
Token arrived as scheduled today, but unfortunately the loupe didn't help much.  I can say that the reverse is approx 20-25 degrees rotated, but still don't think it is a die clash from this token from what I can see. Oh well, back to the drawing board to see if I can find another token that it may be from. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
731 Posts |
Rotation is common with CWTs. I'd say that would be mutually exclusive from the clashes/cracks.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3253 Posts |
I still think that other token is out there to be found, Dave! Once it's identified, it would be so great if you could acquire one, to display side by side with this coin. And don't forget, those two token types would forever be linked in the study of Civil War tokens; it may not have been known that they were products of the same mint.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1436 Posts |
I agree. I'll keep on looking.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
731 Posts |
This specimen was struck by Emil Sigel, because it utilizes Sigels "Eagle Atop Shield," Fuld die number 1216.
Listed as NY630AP-6a, the reverse plate in Fuld's catalog clearly shows the cracked die among the several varieties of reverse "Eagle Atop Shield" dies utilized for H.M. Lane.
As per the clashing, the next step would be to identify other Sigel-struck tokens which utilize 1216, and examine their merchant and/or Patriotic obverses for a tell-tale florette device.
I leave that task to someone else.
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Replies: 16 / Views: 2,827 |
Posted 09/16/2012 12:18 am
