1882 CC Morgan Dollar - 66 Vs 67? NGC Vs PCGS?

CAC is simply the guy who started PCGS and NGC now grading the companies he used to run. I am sorry, but I do not see how it could be regarded as anything but a scam. We now need a grading company to grade the two best TPG known to mankind? So now, the coin that would be worth 100 bucks is now worth 200 because of a sticker? How is that NOT the same as buying the slab?

The reason for CAC is to make sure the grade given by PCGS and NGC is correct. That's it, nothing more. "The CAC GREEN Label signifies that a coin has met Certified Acceptance Corporation's stringent grading standards." That's the all and whole right off their web site.

The only reason this flew in the first place is that whats his name (I cant for the life of me remember the guys name right now) started this company. If it had been you Dave, or me or anyone else, the lead balloon effect would have been in full gear and you know it. So places like Heritage jumped right in line because they knew it would increase their profits.

The final point is this. By their own words, the coin meets their stringent grading standards. This then means that the standards used by PCGS and NGC are NOT as stringent. Same guy sets the standards that were set at the other places. Is this admitting PCGS and NGC are not as high end as everyone says? By saying the CAC sticker is a valid thing, that's exactly the statement being made. PCGS and NGC are not the best, CAC is.

You are precisely correct here. No, PCGS and NGC are not as stringent as they used to be - not compared to the standards established by their founders - and it's now necessary to have a second layer of confirmation for dealers to be able to confidently deal "sight-unseen" since the TPG's no longer can be trusted to provide that security.

Who better to know that than some of the people who started it all?

I understand your opinion, and disagreeing with the opinion doesn't mean I dislike the poster. But to disagree with the need for CAC, I believe, is to deny the reality of what the TPGs have done in the last twenty years.

mkman, yes, thank you! My brain is going to mush I swear. LOL

Dave, dude, I like a good debate. My best friends and I go round and round on stuff all the time. Keeps one on their toes. LOL As for the need for CAC. I do not agree with the need because it is my belief that it is simply one pack of wolves after the others. Dealing sight unseen is something that went on long before there were TPGs around. If you send someone a junky looking MS63 56 FE for example, the network of people involved in those types of transactions will rapidly have you blackballed. It doesn't matter if the coin is a PCGS or ICG slab. Doesn't matter if there is a sticker or not. And anyone who buys a coin simply because of the slab or sticker gets what they deserve. So again, there is no good justification for a huge premium increase due to CAC. How I see it, it iss still a scam.

cjtm, I saw that and scoffed the same. Truly valuable coins get their value, regardless of some sticker with a hyped up mission statement behind it. It doesn't matter what slab it is in or the grade on the slab if the coin is truly an MS65, it will bring that price. If it is an overblown MS65, it wont. No one needs a green sticker to tell them what they are seeing with their own eyes. And if they DO need that sticker, they are in deep stuff. Take the PCGS example the OP posted. No way do I pay 66 price for a coin with that hit on the neck. I don't care that PCGS said its a 66, and would care even less if CAC agreed.

This is true and I have received dozens of CAC green stickers and one gold in my submissions.

The OP's issue is different though. It involved $7,000 or $8,000 coins being bought online. That is not the time to hope you get a good one or try to make a CAC yourself. The return shipping fee could run $50 if you don't like it and the hassle of a high dollar return is something most of us would like to avoid.

My CAC coins have brought handsome premiums when sold. On high dollar MS coins where 1 point can mean thousands of dollars? CAC does a great service to collectors and will buy your CAC'd coins from you as well. Hard to beat.

I agree 100 percent. I was speaking in general terms there, but when talking about coins of that value absolutely buy what you want right off the bat and dont hope it will end up what you want.

People supporting a company is how every company succeeds. Its definitely your right to disagree and everyone is free to collect how they see fit, no judgements here. But I will say the perception and people voicing those opinions happened for a reason. If they didnt deliver on their product it doesn't matter how much advertising a company does it will fail. If all it took was advertising to over take them someone would have thrown a bunch of money at ANACS or started another TPG and done so. A reputation can certainly get overhyped, but it only does so from doing a better job than its competition. Whether its TPGs or companies in general, if their quality declines and someone else is doing a better job that company either readjusts and gets their act together or they fade away

And I do consider myself a conspiracy theorist myself, just ask me about my belief the mint gives large order dealers special treatment lol

the coin was actually graded 67 (not 66) - so then you think PCGS made a mistake in grading this 67? should have been 65 (or lower?)

Sort of. Grading the TPGs wasnt why they started or were needed. A by product of what they do caused the TPGs to tighten up their grading but their main purpose was to serve the high end dealers who have to buy coins worth thousands for their customers sight unseen.

They dont grade whether or not a coin that says its a 67 is a 67, they grade whether or not its a mid to high grade 67. That allows the dealers to know theyre getting a quality to high end coin for its grade as opposed to a borderline one that may not be worth the extra money. This of course then carried over to the general public making those coins more desirable.

A lot of people mistake not getting the bean for being overgraded, which certainly does happen, but not getting the bean doesn't in itself mean it was graded wrong. Plus people are always looking for a way to say their coin is more valuable or better and separate it from the pack and this is another way to do that.