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 Replies: 40 / Views: 3,772 |
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New Member
Latvia
4 Posts |
Hi all, Have recently gotten back into coin collecting and am (slowly) working on putting together a complete Morgan dollar CC set. What I have so far is an 1881 (MS 67) and 83-85 (all MS 66). All have been purchased via ebay. Was thinking about going for an 1882 next. I guess the main things I will get at in the post are the common questions - whether or not the super premium for a step up in grade are worth it, and whether the premium for a PCGS certified coin is worth it. Looking through the ebay listings, there are a few nice MS 66 1882 CC Morgan dollars and they generally seem to run about $1000 each. As of this moment, there are three MS 67 examples, one NGC for $6900 [eBayItem]390485925372[/eBayItem] and one PCGS for $8199 [eBayItem]160909906540[/eBayItem], as well as a MS 67 PL NGC for $8950 [eBayItem]261071581371[/eBayItem], though this one is probably out of my price range (and also the pictures aren't so great). Anyway - is it truly worthwhile to spend the significant extra sum to go for the 67 when a nice 66 could be had for much less (leaving me money left over to get others in the series)? And, the old worn out topic of the 'PCGS premium', as can be seen here. Same grade, but PCGS is $1300 more. Granted, from the pictures, the PCGS does, to my untrained non-expert eye, seem slightly nicer. Both sellers indicate that a 'best offer' is also possible, so final price may not, of course, be what is listed. Am in no hurry to buy at this time and may just watch for further ones to become available, but was just curious what others thought. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3540 Posts |
Research other auction, websites, etc....before making ANY purchase, regardless of grade.
Buy the coin, not the slab.....rule #1.
Learn how to grade the series you collect....rule #2.
....and welcome aboard!
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10982 Posts |
Quote:
Anyway - is it truly worthwhile to spend the significant extra sum to go for the 67 when a nice 66 could be had for much less (leaving me money left over to get others in the series)?
It's not worthwhile to most people. If your name is Warren Buffet, Bill Gates, or you are the Sultan of Brunei then buy the 67 providing you have the expertise to know true 67 (in-hand since there is no telling from images). Buying online? I'd look for an NGC or PCGS certified piece with CAC approval. Here's an example: http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-1882-CC-M...em1e71373062 |
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Rest in Peace
United States
10625 Posts |
I agree with BH1964. If you're set on buying a slabbed coin of that magnitude be sure it's a bean.
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Moderator
 United States
23522 Posts |
In your shoes, I'd lean towards the 66's to free up budget for more coins. Either way, you're playing in the sweet spot for long-term interest, the market where most potential buyers are somewhat recession-proof. These are coins for which you'll find the archive at Heritage Auctions to be useful; you'll find them disproportionally represented there as Heritage is the largest single sales source for high-end coins. Registration with them is free, and it's my belief that prices noted from their history (factoring in the premiums involved) can be considered what knowledgeable collectors are prepared to pay. Not to mention, for the last few years their imaging has been of the highest quality, and although you can't reliably grade from photos, theirs are as close as it gets. Frankly, in your range I'd be concentrating my shopping at venues like Heritage, Teletrade, Superior and Great Collections rather than ebay. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3184 Posts |
Do not buy into the kool aid of some telling you that PCGS is the best and only buy PCGS. Thats ridiculous. If there is a NGC ms66 coin and a PCGS ms66 coin, you buy the coin, not the holder. The NGC 66 could be more eye appealing than the pcgs and vice versa.
Also with CAC now, those that say a certain pcgs coin is graded accurately and the ngc one isn't.........if both have the bean and the NGC one is cheaper, get the NGC one! Both accurately graded and one is cheaper.....no brainer.
Overall, look at the coin first and compare.
Goodluck!!
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3755 Posts |
That darn bean means squat. Just that the original owner of PCGS and NGC now grades his old companies. A complete scam. Use what the crooks have graded them as a guideline. As acloco said, you need to be able to determine for yourself if you feel its a 66 or 67. Pay for the coin YOU think is the best of what you are looking at and pay NO attention to extra stickers. And if you feel the coins are the same, definitely do NOT pay more simply because of the letters on the slab. The ONLY thing that slab really does is tell you the coin 99.9% likely to be real. Here is where eye appeal varies. On the NGC, that is a beautiful frosty coin and to me lands square on as a 67. No real hits that I see right off hand great details, very nice. The PCGS is not as frosty, but still great strike and details. HOWEVER, there IS a hit on her neck that would knock down into 66 IMO. But for sake of argument say it IS a 67 like the NGC. Pffftttt, easy call. Get the cheaper one. Unless YOU find the other one to be a grand plus nicer. As for 66 or 67, be diligent and search out a 66. Like I said, I believe they over graded that PCGS coin by a grade. I bet if you remain patient you will find a 66 that will be virtually the same as those two. Especially the PCGS. Edited by Forum Mom for language.And why not ebay? If you can find slabbed coins of that grade on ebay, why shovel more money to the hosting site? because really thats all that happens going to Heritage. Heritage makes a lot more off of the sales than does ebay and can protect me no better than ebay. |
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New Member
 Latvia
4 Posts |
Thanks everyone :) As expected, some different views on how to proceed, and I do appreciate the feedback. I mainly had wanted to start some discussion to get a better idea of the thought process. Certainly, I am aware of the importance of 'eye appeal' and the 'buy the coin, not the slab' philosophy. Though, and I do not wish to rehash the old argument, isn't that, after all, why we let professionals grade the coins? But yes, 'eye appeal' is key. Why ebay? The selection, mainly. Though, obviously, the user generated photos are not always the best. And with multiple sellers you have the opportunity to play one off the other, obviously. Though I will certainly keep an eye on the Heritage website - thanks for the suggestion! smokeriderdon - from my glances of the photos, I had thought the PCGS was slightly nicer. Yes, there is that nick on the neck - but that's not hard to miss, and you would think a professional would have spotted that immediately and taken that into consideration when grading. Though, of course, the $1300 price difference it a bit hard to fathom though :) Anyway, thank you all again, I really do appreciate the comments and suggestions! |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3184 Posts |
all about eye appeal first before the slab. I'm looking at a 1879s MS66+ morgan w/cac PCGS coin and a 1879s NGC MS66* cac, both look great but the ngc one seems better and its 60 bucks cheaper, whats my choice? Hands down the NGC one. Use your own eyes to show you, I have NGC, PCGS, and some ANACs coins and I'm happy. I think a all PCGS collection, etc is missing out on a lot of stuff
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
14454 Posts |
I agree with SsuperDdave, Heritage and the other auction Houses would be a better venue for you than ebay ad I believe you would get a better deal there. Yopu would have to factor in the buyers premium when purchasing from them but you will not have the impulse buyer high priced BIN items like you do at ebay. I have gotten allot better deals on Heritage and Teletrade on higher graded items than I could have ever gotten on ebay because you are usually bidding against the experienced collector/dealer there instead of the casual collector on ebay that just wants a coin in high grade. When you factor that in with a pretty consistent photo you can really judge what a true MS-66 or 67 looks like compared to each other, where on ebay everyone's picture taking ability is different and its hard to judge a good picture of a 65 from an alright picture of a 67 |
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Valued Member
United States
366 Posts |
Buy the best coin you can afford... The 67's can be worth it but I would strongly suggest you buy sight seen at that level (major shows) or from reputable dealers who have guaranteed return policy. Eye appeal is critical when you play at the MS66-67 or better level. CAC is even better if you can find them.
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New Member
Latvia
4 Posts |
Interestingly, the Heritage Auctions site has wound up making the issue even cloudier - particularly in NGC vs PCGS.
A PCGS 82 CC MS 67 (with CAC stamp) was sold for $10,575.00 two weeks ago and an NGC was sold for $4,049.15 in September of last year. nearly $6500 difference. Would eye appeal and CAC stamp really account for a $6500 difference? I suppose it has to, everything else being equal. Prices are all over the place for the past two years or so.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
36828 Posts |
I would try for a matched set of MS66 and all in the same TPG holder, which ever one you prefer. |
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Valued Member
United States
140 Posts |
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CAC is even better if you can find them Personally, I would say don't go for CAC'd coins unless you can get them for a decent price. A lot of coins that are high grades that CAC bring crazy premiums and you'll find that it's not worth it, especially if you know how to grade accurately. Pick out a coin with great eye appeal and one that deserves the grade it's been given. If you decide you really want the sticker on it, find a CAC dealer and send it out. Why spend up to a couple hundred dollars extra when you could spend $12.50 just by knowing what you're looking for? Good luck! |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3755 Posts |
As I said, CAC is a complete and utter scam and people are buying into it because places like Heritage have propped it up because they make even more money on the sales of these coins. Your example there shows what I am talking about. The price realized for the NGC piece is probably closer to realistic. A 6 grand price spread in same grade is just ridiculous. Everyone keeps saying don't buy the slab. Huh, how about don't buy a sticker? And as I said before, the extra money you give to Heritage for the coins is NOT worth it IMO. A little diligence and patience is all that is needed to find what you want on ebay and at shows. |
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Moderator
United States
23522 Posts |
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As I said, CAC is a complete and utter scam and people are buying into it because places like Heritage have propped it up because they make even more money on the sales of these coins. I'm sorry you feel that way, since you're incorrect. At least, compared to the true reason for CAC. |
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Replies: 40 / Views: 3,772 |
Posted 10/28/2012 4:45 pm
