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 Replies: 22 / Views: 2,765 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1454 Posts |
Haven't bought silver or even watched price fluctuations in nearly two months. So what did I miss (besides you good folks, of course)?  |
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Pillar of the Community
Mexico
1304 Posts |
Nothing other than a potential selling opportunity, but not that great of one if you ask me. There are rumbleings of countries wanting to take delivery on their physical gold and that could make the world an interesting place if they follow through.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
863 Posts |
Really, Countries are planning on asking for delivery of physical gold based on paper gold holdings? if this happens every one who has paper gold and silver will want it delivered. I'm glad I already own mine :D. not really much but at least its mine
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Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts |
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Countries are planning on asking for delivery of physical gold based on paper gold holdings? Thats been rumored since the start of paper pm trading. Its not going to happen, maybe on a small scale for a country with reasonable holdings but you wont see the big players doing it. The advantage of the paper PM is the easy ability to sell and take advantage of highs and lows, you lose that advantage when you have the actual metal. Plus major countries can just buy silver right from mines at a cheaper price if they really wanted that |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
808 Posts |
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Thats been rumored since the start of paper pm trading. Its not going to happen, maybe on a small scale for a country with reasonable holdings but you wont see the big players doing it. Exactly. From the big paper player perspective, you've got two choices: 1) force the physical deliver issue and realize your loss or 2) continue playing the game and keep reaping the fiat gains. It's pretty easy to see how and why the game manages to survive. Until there is a critical external event to force a change, the paper silver game will continue. Good to hear that you're back ,traevin! Edited by coinwatch
11/03/2012 11:26 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3670 Posts |
"Tell me everything that has happened up to this point?"
"Well-first the dinosaurs came and they all turned into oil. Then next came the Arabs and they all bought Mercedes Benz."
And that bout sums it up T to this point- glad to c you back.
Edited by Silverhawk74
11/04/2012 12:35 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4008 Posts |
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Really, Countries are planning on asking for delivery of physical gold based on paper gold holdings? Really? My take on this story was that some countries had REAL PHYSICAL GOLD on deposit in London, Paris, and NY that they want returned. These are bricks with serial numbers on them, not futures contracts. If there is any paper involved it is likely just a depositors receipt for the gold itself. The really fun part of all this is that the central banks of the world, who know each other best, do not trust each other to hold gold securely so they want it returned. Problem is, the countries supposedly holding the gold may very well have either sold that gold or hypothecated it to oblivion... as in dozens of claims bought on that same gold and not everyone can have it. This would be like selling a $1 million gold mine for $10 million or more in cash. There is no way you can pay off all of the "owners" claims with only the $1 million. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
863 Posts |
How would the banks get out of that? start buying up the gold on their own?
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Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts |
Thatd be 1 option for them to buy more.
More than likely either they or the other countries with investments there will make it very clear to who ever wants a physical delivery that it is not in their best interest to demand delivery of it whether it be for their own reasons or to prevent retaliation from others. The big players all keep each other inline, they wont let a country or two blow up the system.
For all we know their contracts with the bank prevent physical delivery from happening or only allow it under certain circumstances.
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Pillar of the Community
Mexico
1304 Posts |
Ed_B, dead on the money. It is coming out that some countries don't have the audited information on their holdlings...the seral numbers etc. They are taking action and "they" are not necessarily the smallest players. Some are in the top ten.
basebal21, that's the problem, it seems that some some players ARE demanding repatriation and this is throwing some sand into the gears of the system.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4008 Posts |
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How would the banks get out of that? start buying up the gold on their own? If a bank owes someone gold that they are holding on deposit, they HAVE to come up with it from somewhere. Yes, my guess would be that they have to go into the public marketplace and buy gold until they can satisfy those to whom they owe gold, if they cannot simply get it from their own vaults. This happens in the silver market as well. When Eric Sprott placed a LARGE order for silver bars, it took 3-4 months before all of it was delivered. All of the bars that he received were brand new and did not come from any bar hoard that was being held in a vault somewhere. Stories like this make me wonder whether or not there are any unallocated bars in any of these so-called repositories. When a big order is made it sure seems to take time to fill it and not with old bars but with new ones. It is pretty obvious that big orders cannot be filled from vaults but are being produced and bought ASAP. We see pictures of piles and piles of gold and silver bars from time to time but I wonder if these PM bars really exist. Perhaps they do but are so encumbered via hypothecation that they have almost no value remaining. If so, then this could be why any large orders have to be made on the spot and why it takes months to fill them. Quote:
It is coming out that some countries don't have the audited information on their holdlings...the seral numbers etc. They are taking action and "they" are not necessarily the smallest players. Some are in the top ten. It sure looks like a huge mess to me. It also looks as if we are in the early innings of the final game of the fiat paradigm. Countries and their central banks are now aware that the whole fiat scheme is unraveling, so are now interested in getting ALL of their real wealth in their own hands before paper becomes known far and wide as having little to no real value. They seem to know that those who get their gold (and perhaps silver) first will be the ones who actually get what is owed to them or at least a good share of it. Those who come later may get little to none of their PMs returned. When Chavez demanded and got most of Venezuela's gold returned to them, a lot of people thought that he was just being a PITA. While he may be that, he is not a stupid PITA! As paper collapses, anyone and everyone will be scrambling for gold and silver and they may not be too particular as to actual ownership. That will not be a good time to be a member of the group that has no PMs but is trying to get some. |
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Pillar of the Community
Mexico
1304 Posts |
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Yes, my guess would be that they have to go into the public marketplace and buy gold until they can satisfy those to whom they owe gold, if they cannot simply get it from their own vaults. Ed_B, you are correct. At least on a relatively small scale, I just read an article about banks in Vietnam have been caught in the act of selling customers deposited gold and that is exactly what they are having to do, the government is "allowing" them buy it from the market (by the pallet load) before making the bank's practices illegal. (found on Zero Hedge) Again, last night, article from a German magazine...looks like they are going to repatriate about about 150 tons from the US over the next three years. (I have seen this mentioned several places.) And it sounds like Ecuador is following in Venezuela's footsteps. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3670 Posts |
I wish I could go money orders sn cash still as I hate banks so- but with this fragile collapse any second technical world we are all at their mercy. No way I could function on ebay minus pay pal an bank connection. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4008 Posts |
Yes, Harrison, I also have read about Vietnam and their problems with making gold laws that are workable. They don't seem to be very good at it yet but maybe with a bit of practice will get it right.
I find the 150 tons of gold that is scheduled for repatriation to be an interesting figure. First, it is only about 10% of the approx. 1547 tons of gold that Germany has on deposit at the NY Fed. It also seems to me to be a figure that they can probably scrape up in the gold market place. I am curious as to why the Germans are not demanding ALL of their gold be returned immediately. My best guess here is that they know that the NY Fed does not have it, so instead of calling them on this scam have worked a deal to get some of their gold returned quietly. Otherwise, this whole ugly mess becomes public knowledge and the Fed loses so much credibility that they cannot continue to function in an area, such as banking, that is significantly based upon trust.
Whoa, there's a smack upside the head! Trust a banker? Man, what would anyone have to drink or smoke to make that seem a good idea?!
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Pillar of the Community
Mexico
1304 Posts |
Ed_B, you crack me up. The issue seems to be gaining some traction and I don't envy those who have to deal with the issue. It seems reasonable that we would see some sort of bailout/legislation before things would be allowed to really fly off the handle. (Sorry gold bugs)
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4008 Posts |
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Ed_B, you crack me up. Quote:
The issue seems to be gaining some traction and I don't envy those who have to deal with the issue. No, me either. This whole situation looks as if the banksters fully expected this gold to never be repatriated so why worry if it has been sold and all that is left of it is a ledger entry? Well, guess what, guys... other countries are now beginning to understand that their gold has been sold off and isn't in the vaults of the bank that was supposed to hold it securely. As fiat currencies convulse towards their inevitable and well deserved death, gold is rising rapidly in importance as a reserve asset. Those who know these things will be pressing the banksters to repatriate all of the gold that they can while they still can. This is all hush-hush, of course, because once it becomes public knowledge, all pretense at central banks being trustworthy stewards of national monetary policy will be well and truly over. Since their ability to operate depends on maintaining this fiction, they will do whatever they can to preserve it. In the case of the Germans, that means buying up 50 tons of gold each year for the next 3 years to give to the Germans. If German gold was in the vaults of the NY Fed, there would be no need for all these shenanigans. Since they are willing to go through all these gyrations, it is pretty good proof that there is no gold hoard in those vaults. If there was, they could end all this speculation by simply trotting it out and showing it... with MUCH fanfare, of course. |
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Replies: 22 / Views: 2,765 |
Posted 11/02/2012 4:08 pm
