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Replies: 10 / Views: 5,376 |
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Valued Member
United Kingdom
115 Posts |
Evening; I have come across what I believe to be a fake, full sovereign. The poor king has had his name spelled 'Eduardus'! (unless it is his Portuguese cousin?!) Whilst I'm new to the numismatic side of coin collecting, I have had a few soveriegns built up over the years, purely from a 'gold coin' point of view. I shall post a picture in case some sort of database exists for forgeries/fakes, although the error is so blinding that I doubt any collector might fall for it. Also, as a newbie to this forum, would it be particularly impertinent to suggest that a forum might be created in order to catalogue all the counterfeits which members have discovered, along with a small description of what to look out for, in a database sort of fashion?  
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
2490 Posts |
I doubt that this was intended to deceive, but is possibly an Indian of Arabic "jeweller's coin". The mark below the truncation indicates that it was signed by someone and the chances are that this is an Indian jeweller's Shroff mark, which is similar to a Chinese chop mark.
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Valued Member
 United Kingdom
115 Posts |
Ah I see, I never considered that imitations were not always intended to deceive. That is a clear indication of my ignorance! So rather than considering this as junk, I should perhaps view it as an interesting 'coin' created for some purpose.
Could anyone tell me what these coins were used for? Is it likely to be gold then, despite it not being an original sovereign?
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Valued Member
 United Kingdom
115 Posts |
And I meant to add, to which mark do you refer? the small 'bugle' (similar to deutsch post) inder the bust?
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Moderator
 Australia
16852 Posts |
Middle eastern jeweller's imitations, like alganbagerap mentions, are indeed made of gold. They most usually have a fineness mark on them, either in Arabic or Western numerals, such as this example does. And no, they aren't really intended to deceive, but rather to sell gold in a form that their customers are familiar with. Although that example I just linked to has a 21k fineness mark, whereas real sovereigns are 22k, so there may be some... stretching of the truth... with some of the makers and sellers of these replicas. However, I don't think your coin is one of these; the design isn't a close enough match, there's no fineness mark and judging by the way the area around the horse's mouth appears to be turning green, I'd say this piece is not actually made of solid gold. It has also at one stage been removed from a loop mounting of some kind (you can see the damaged spot at the top on both sides). I suspect it was made as a jewellery imitation (which is different from the "jeweller's copy" mentioned earlier), the numismatic equivalent of a cubic zirconia: a cheap substitute for a genuine gold coin for use in jewellery, good enough to look genuine at first glance but deliberately designed to fail a close inspection by someone actually familiar with sovereigns. Quote: Also, as a newbie to this forum, would it be particularly impertinent to suggest that a forum might be created in order to catalogue all the counterfeits which members have discovered, along with a small description of what to look out for, in a database sort of fashion? Not at all impertinent; I believe something like that is currently being worked up by the admins here. It's still got a few bugs and issues to be worked out before it's formally launched.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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Valued Member
 United Kingdom
115 Posts |
Thank you so much for expressing such detail, sir. That is most interesting. So I presume the coin must have been acquired in that condition. I have checked, since you mentioned (and I hadn't noticed), and you are correct that there is some form of oxidation on it. Definitively rules out gold!
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
2830 Posts |
please check the weight and diameter. The dragon appears to have been given the toes of a gecko. If ever you see ladies doing the belly dance, they often wear a belt made up of "gold" coins, linked by chains: as I understand it, these are to indicate the value of her dowry.
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Valued Member
 United Kingdom
115 Posts |
22mm diameter, 3.9g in weight.
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
2830 Posts |
thankyou: correct diameter, but only half the weight. I'm guessing that your "token" is brass.
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Valued Member
 United Kingdom
115 Posts |
yes, it is most probably brass-I am going to zap it with my friends XRF gun next week. Only problem is that this chap is a serious metalurgist and will probably pull out a Wahrhiftig diagram and talk me to death about the unimolecular ionic decomposition of the coin, or some such! I tend to just smile and nod appreciatively!
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Pillar of the Community
2087 Posts |
I travel to Jordan once every year. In jordan the best place to find coins is actually jewelers shops as the gold and silver markets usually over price the coins so that even with haggling they expect more than the bullion value of the coin. In the jewelers shops the last trip ( a month ago) the only coins available for sale were locally made 21 Kt replicas. As noted earlier in the trhread these are not produced to decieve rather to sell gold in a familiar form. By law they have to be counter marked often in tiny arabic script. I have always thought they are worth collecting in their own right. I have only one in my collection 21 kts and with the Arabic for "faith" as the counter mark. However ever its not just sovereigns that are reproduced.....I always regret not buying a replica 50 peso piece....it was obviously not genuine. It had been cast from a real example but the edge and some of the other markings were much more primitive it had a naive style that was quite charming. I have never seen another one I suspect the one I saw may have been melted down to produce jewelry. It was also 21 kt gold ( isn't that a higher gold standard than the real thing?)
Edited by austrokiwi 11/18/2012 04:44 am
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Replies: 10 / Views: 5,376 |
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