Coin Community Family of Web Sites Join Thousands of Coin, Bullion, & Money Collectors
Royal Estate Auctions - $1 Coin Auctions300,000 items to help build your collection! Coin, Banknote and Medal Collectors's Online Mall Vancouvers #1 Coin and Paper Money Dealer Royal Canadian Mint products, Canadian, Polish, American, and world coins and banknotes. Join Thousands of Coin, Bullion, & Money Collectors Specializing in Modern Numismatics








Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?


This page may contain links that result in small commissions to keep this free site up and running.

Welcome Guest! Registering and/or logging in will remove the anchor (bottom) ads. It's Free!

Counterfeit 1908 Sovereign

To participate in the forum you must log in or register.
Author Previous TopicReplies: 10 / Views: 5,376Next Topic  
Valued Member

United Kingdom
115 Posts
 Posted 11/15/2012  2:42 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add paul g to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Evening;
I have come across what I believe to be a fake, full sovereign. The poor king has had his name spelled 'Eduardus'! (unless it is his Portuguese cousin?!)

Whilst I'm new to the numismatic side of coin collecting, I have had a few soveriegns built up over the years, purely from a 'gold coin' point of view.

I shall post a picture in case some sort of database exists for forgeries/fakes, although the error is so blinding that I doubt any collector might fall for it.

Also, as a newbie to this forum, would it be particularly impertinent to suggest that a forum might be created in order to catalogue all the counterfeits which members have discovered, along with a small description of what to look out for, in a database sort of fashion?



Counterfeit-1908-Sovereign

Counterfeit-1908-Sovereign
Pillar of the Community
alganbagerap's Avatar
United Kingdom
2490 Posts
 Posted 11/15/2012  3:03 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add alganbagerap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I doubt that this was intended to deceive, but is possibly an Indian of Arabic "jeweller's coin". The mark below the truncation indicates that it was signed by someone and the chances are that this is an Indian jeweller's Shroff mark, which is similar to a Chinese chop mark.
Valued Member
United Kingdom
115 Posts
 Posted 11/15/2012  3:45 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add paul g to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Ah I see, I never considered that imitations were not always intended to deceive. That is a clear indication of my ignorance!
So rather than considering this as junk, I should perhaps view it as an interesting 'coin' created for some purpose.

Could anyone tell me what these coins were used for? Is it likely to be gold then, despite it not being an original sovereign?
Valued Member
United Kingdom
115 Posts
 Posted 11/15/2012  3:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add paul g to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
And I meant to add, to which mark do you refer? the small 'bugle' (similar to deutsch post) inder the bust?
Moderator
Learn More...
Sap's Avatar
Australia
16852 Posts
 Posted 11/15/2012  6:11 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Middle eastern jeweller's imitations, like alganbagerap mentions, are indeed made of gold. They most usually have a fineness mark on them, either in Arabic or Western numerals, such as this example does. And no, they aren't really intended to deceive, but rather to sell gold in a form that their customers are familiar with. Although that example I just linked to has a 21k fineness mark, whereas real sovereigns are 22k, so there may be some... stretching of the truth... with some of the makers and sellers of these replicas.

However, I don't think your coin is one of these; the design isn't a close enough match, there's no fineness mark and judging by the way the area around the horse's mouth appears to be turning green, I'd say this piece is not actually made of solid gold. It has also at one stage been removed from a loop mounting of some kind (you can see the damaged spot at the top on both sides). I suspect it was made as a jewellery imitation (which is different from the "jeweller's copy" mentioned earlier), the numismatic equivalent of a cubic zirconia: a cheap substitute for a genuine gold coin for use in jewellery, good enough to look genuine at first glance but deliberately designed to fail a close inspection by someone actually familiar with sovereigns.

Quote:
Also, as a newbie to this forum, would it be particularly impertinent to suggest that a forum might be created in order to catalogue all the counterfeits which members have discovered, along with a small description of what to look out for, in a database sort of fashion?

Not at all impertinent; I believe something like that is currently being worked up by the admins here. It's still got a few bugs and issues to be worked out before it's formally launched.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
Valued Member
United Kingdom
115 Posts
 Posted 11/15/2012  9:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add paul g to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you so much for expressing such detail, sir. That is most interesting. So I presume the coin must have been acquired in that condition. I have checked, since you mentioned (and I hadn't noticed), and you are correct that there is some form of oxidation on it. Definitively rules out gold!
Pillar of the Community
Peter THOMAS's Avatar
Australia
2830 Posts
 Posted 11/16/2012  01:59 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Peter THOMAS to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
please check the weight and diameter.
The dragon appears to have been given the toes of a gecko.
If ever you see ladies doing the belly dance, they often wear a belt made up of "gold" coins, linked by chains:
as I understand it, these are to indicate the value of her dowry.
Valued Member
United Kingdom
115 Posts
 Posted 11/16/2012  10:58 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add paul g to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
22mm diameter, 3.9g in weight.
Pillar of the Community
Peter THOMAS's Avatar
Australia
2830 Posts
 Posted 11/16/2012  11:22 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Peter THOMAS to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
thankyou: correct diameter, but only half the weight. I'm guessing that your "token" is brass.
Valued Member
United Kingdom
115 Posts
 Posted 11/16/2012  11:58 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add paul g to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
yes, it is most probably brass-I am going to zap it with my friends XRF gun next week. Only problem is that this chap is a serious metalurgist and will probably pull out a Wahrhiftig diagram and talk me to death about the unimolecular ionic decomposition of the coin, or some such! I tend to just smile and nod appreciatively!
Pillar of the Community
austrokiwi's Avatar
2087 Posts
 Posted 11/18/2012  04:43 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add austrokiwi to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I travel to Jordan once every year. In jordan the best place to find coins is actually jewelers shops as the gold and silver markets usually over price the coins so that even with haggling they expect more than the bullion value of the coin. In the jewelers shops the last trip ( a month ago) the only coins available for sale were locally made 21 Kt replicas. As noted earlier in the trhread these are not produced to decieve rather to sell gold in a familiar form. By law they have to be counter marked often in tiny arabic script. I have always thought they are worth collecting in their own right. I have only one in my collection 21 kts and with the Arabic for "faith" as the counter mark. However ever its not just sovereigns that are reproduced.....I always regret not buying a replica 50 peso piece....it was obviously not genuine. It had been cast from a real example but the edge and some of the other markings were much more primitive it had a naive style that was quite charming. I have never seen another one I suspect the one I saw may have been melted down to produce jewelry. It was also 21 kt gold ( isn't that a higher gold standard than the real thing?)
Edited by austrokiwi
11/18/2012 04:44 am
  Previous TopicReplies: 10 / Views: 5,376Next Topic  

To participate in the forum you must log in or register.



    




Disclaimer: While a tremendous amount of effort goes into ensuring the accuracy of the information contained in this site, Coin Community assumes no liability for errors. Copyright 2005 - 2026 Coin Community Family- all rights reserved worldwide. Use of any images or content on this website without prior written permission of Coin Community or the original lender is strictly prohibited.
Contact Us  |  Advertise Here  |  Privacy Policy / Terms of Use

Coin Community Forum © 2005 - 2026 Coin Community Forums
It took 0.36 seconds to rattle this change. Forums