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Proof Morgans

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tomtom777's Avatar
United States
243 Posts
 Posted 12/13/2012  11:29 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add tomtom777 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I was wondering what is a good way to tell if a Morgan dollar is a real proof strike and not just a PL one? I have looked at some and other coins from the same date range and most of them look like business strikes, this is also all from looking at them online.
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
United States
23522 Posts
 Posted 12/13/2012  1:42 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Well, here's the thing: There isn't a "good way" to decide whether or not you're holding a Proof Morgan.

Morgan Proof strikes can vary in quality. Not all will show Cameo effects. You can assume that they will show great reflectivity, but plenty of Morgan Business Strikes show the same. Worse, in most cases the same dies used to strike Proofs for a given date then go on to strike circulation coins; even though we may know the subtle die markers for the Proof dies of that year (and in most cases, we do), the first few circulation strikes from those dies are going to be very difficult to tell from a Proof.

It's possible for a knowledgeable Morgan collector to form a reasonable conclusion about a given coin. TPG's will render absolute opinions, but quite frankly in all but the most obvious cases there's an unspoken element of subjectivity in that opinion.

Like cleaning and dipping, if the TPG says it is/ain't, then it is/ain't.

For that reason, I would never touch a Morgan Proof outside a TPG slab.
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tomtom777's Avatar
United States
243 Posts
 Posted 12/13/2012  2:14 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tomtom777 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
That is the answer I was expecting as I have noticed it is very hard to tell them apart. I didn't know about using that same dies but that can explain some of the issue with telling them apart. I have been thinking to start a proof set that includes a morgan but they are expensive and while they are in TPG holders it is still hard to tell them from a regular one, I mean I would just have to trust that the TPG has a real proof and not a PL or something like that.
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Bryan1315's Avatar
United States
14454 Posts
 Posted 12/13/2012  7:43 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bryan1315 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
just get the 1895 and be done with it, that way you will know its definitely a Proof


SD sent me a 1921 Morgan once that I would have sworn was a Proof, it had deeper mirrors than any other DMPL coin I had ever seen up to that point, but NGC didn't agree and they didn't even call it a PL or DMPL
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D0ubl3Eagle's Avatar
United States
5854 Posts
 Posted 12/13/2012  7:58 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add D0ubl3Eagle to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
A couple of months ago, one of the dealers near where I live showed me a 1878 morgan that he picked out of a batch of average circulated common date morgans. While he was getting the coin out from the safe, he told me that he believed that it may be a proof. When he handed the coin over to me, I knew that I wasn't any ordinary 1878 morgan. It had a needle sharp strike, sharp squared off rims, and reflective surfaces. Unfortunately, it had been cleaned as if it had been aggressively wiped. I told him what I thought and apparently another dealer agreed since he said that he got a grand for it.

Like SsuperDdave said, there is no fool proof method. Much of it comes from experience. I don't consider myself a morgan expert but there are a few things that I look for. One thing I do is to check the mintmark. I know the presence of a mintmark does not automatically rule out a proof but branch mint proofs are very rare and it is much more likely its a PL/DMPL business strike than a proof. Like I mentioned above, I also check for a sharp strike with squared off rims and reflective fields. Watch out if the coin is reflective but there are halos around the devices and the luster/surface within those halos looks decidedly more business strike than proof. While most proofs have sharp details, not all do. For example, the 1893 proof morgan sometimes looks like it was struck in New Orleans. Like in many areas of numismatics, there are always exceptions to the rules and as already mentioned even experts can't always agree. Take for example the 1841 quarter eagle.
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Prethen's Avatar
United States
3234 Posts
 Posted 12/14/2012  11:25 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Prethen to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Squared off dentils and sharp rim. Of course, all devices will be sharp and basically squared off to the fields.

Look up "1887 Proof Morgan Love Token" on the PCGS U.S. Coin Forum. For some reason that link is not allowed on this form (WHY?!).
Edited by Prethen
12/14/2012 11:26 am
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