Maria Theresia Thaler Identification, Need Your Help!

There are two points in-between: see fig.


Thank you so much for your explanation about the MTTs, you are really a professional, austrokiwi. Your answer, in fact, solves another question of an overstruck Portugal Mozambique MTT - the time of overstamping of "PM" on the coin.



The upper coin is the coin I posted and the lower one is the overstamped Portugal Mozambique piece. They are the same MTT type.


Conclusion: the overstamping of the MTT by Portugal authority would be after 1865.

I believe that Herr Hafner used H49 as a "catch all" covering the Thalers produced over a long period of time. He states in his catalogue there are many varieties of H49. The strikings between 1853-1935 are not overly interesting from a collectors perspective.....most,if not all, are valued at only bullion value. The main reason for the dis-interest is due to the adoption of modern minting techniques. These coins were produced by reduction machine and the modern minting press.Only one mint,Vienna, produced the majority of MTT ( Prague may have produced coins in the late 19th century But most likely using Vienna mint manufactured dies).

Prior to the 1840s Dies were hand cut and had mint specific identifiers for each mint. Those earlier coins are, by and large, rare. IN the prod 1840-1853 there is still some interesting strikes as Milan and Venice mints( although using Vienna mint cut dies and modern striking techniques) were still producing the coin.

IN 1935 the Mussolini, promising to support an Austria independent of National Socialist Germany, gained from Austria an agreement giving Italy the sole right ( excluding a 10,000 per year minting right for the Vienna mint). This is where the next surge in important MTT varieties occurred as France, the UK, Belgium and the Netherlands ( as well as a private Swiss medalist firm) all decided that Austria had given its sole minting rights and their mints commenced striking the MTT. This resulted in some new rarities: e.g. Utrecht ( only two currently known to exist in the Utrecht mint museum) and the first Paris mint striking ( 1937-41).

Just to help you further I can email separately a pdf( I will limit the copies I send out to 10 only) of an article I published in 2010 covering the 20th century striking of the MTT it has information not previously published before and outlines the UK Customs records that prove(98% confidence) Hafner 66 (as listed in Hafners book) does not exist. Send me a private message if you want a copy of the PDF.

Note you cannot trust Krauses reports on the dimensions of the MTT particularly the diameter the MTT diameter ranges from 39.5mm through to almost 42 mm.


That reminds me it may be possible the coin you first posted is Hafner 58 ( 1935 striking) Check the diameter... if 39.5mm then it is more likely to be the 1935 striking.