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Help Identifying Old Coin With Latin Inscription (Id: 17th Century Jeton Of Liege)

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oskibluengold's Avatar
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 Posted 12/28/2012  9:34 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add oskibluengold to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Hello,

I'm curious if any of you know the origin of this coin. It looks to be inscribed with a Latin prayer. On one side you can see the words "ora pro nobis S P Lambe..." On the other side is "ora pro nobis dei genitrix", with an interesting shield on this side. I know nothing about coins and just inherited it. Thanks for your help!

Help-Identifying-Old-Coin-With-Latin-Inscription-Id:-17th-Century-Jeton-Of-Liege

Help-Identifying-Old-Coin-With-Latin-Inscription-Id:-17th-Century-Jeton-Of-Liege
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philadelphian's Avatar
United States
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 Posted 12/28/2012  10:01 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add philadelphian to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
A Belgian family's jeton. Found a description here:
http://books.google.com/books?pg=PA...&output=html
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philadelphian's Avatar
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 Posted 12/28/2012  10:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add philadelphian to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The appeal to "pray for us" is to St. Lambert of Maastricht, also associated with Liège, in Belgium.
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oskibluengold's Avatar
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 Posted 12/28/2012  10:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add oskibluengold to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
That's fantastic. Thank you! Do you have any thoughts on a possible date for the coin?
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philadelphian's Avatar
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 Posted 12/28/2012  10:47 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add philadelphian to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Even the text I found doesn't venture a date for this one, but here a good page on jetons in general, and those of the Low Countries in particular:
http://www.chicagocoinclub.org/proj...PiN/juh.html
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oskibluengold's Avatar
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 Posted 12/28/2012  10:49 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add oskibluengold to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Awesome, you've been really helpful. Thanks!
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philadelphian's Avatar
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 Posted 12/28/2012  11:07 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add philadelphian to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Let us know if you find out what person or town bears that coat of arms!
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oskibluengold's Avatar
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 Posted 12/31/2012  03:12 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add oskibluengold to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hi philadelphian! Since you were so helpful I thought I'd give you an update. I emailed the Royal Numismatic Society of Belgium, and a gentleman there forwarded my question to an expert in Liege. Here is his response, translated from French to English with google translator:

Baron Jean-Paul Groesbeeck was lord of Franc-Waret. Pope
Paul V granted him bubbles? January 23, 1613 and its reception as
Canon noble took place January 19, 1618. He became abbot of Dinant on 16
August 1625 and archdeacon of Condroz in 1633 . He was also the
Chancellor of Ferdinand of Bavaria, then resigned, received the Provost
Saint-Lambert July 1, 1652. [4] Just invested with the dignity
provost, he thought it his duty to go to his office and all its glory
claim all the powers which his predecessors had enjoyed. [5]

Thus he came into conflict with Maximilian Henry of Bavaria [6]
argued that many legal cases. He enjoyed a Liege
popularity and the House of Habsburg in him a supporter
sincere. This Méreau very likely was struck during
elevation to the archdeaconry Condroz Jean Paul Groesbeeck as
might suggest the reverse text [7]. Circular legends
Law and setbacks that evoke St. Mary and St. Lambert are
direct references to the patron saints of the cathedral of Liège and
indirectly to the chapter in which John Paul had Groesbeeck
was received as canon since 1618.

In 1633, the mint was still in Dinant activity,
Méreau could therefore have been struck in this workshop . The March 2, 1632 the
Dinant writer Jerome was Christmas and it is still cited for the last
After April 28, 1634. [9]

The cathedral chapter consisted mainly of Cadets
noble families and wanted to have the members of the nobility at the head of
archidiaconates who were also jurisdictions and were entitled to
rich and a considerable income credit in the state. Also there
we called the richest families in the country, Woestenraedt,
Rennenberg, Eckevoort, Hoen, Groesbeeck, Bocholt, Duras, Stockem,
Liedekerke, Ruyschenbourg in the late sixteenth and early seventeenth century. and
Most of the time, dignities remained in the same family as they
passing from uncle to nephew. [10]
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aiglet7's Avatar
Canada
695 Posts
 Posted 12/31/2012  03:26 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add aiglet7 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
One of the most enjoyable aspects of coin collecting is to learn the history behind the piece of metal you hold in your hand. Thanks to both "oskibluengold" & "philadelphian" for an interesting post.

As has been repeated many times "An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history."
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philadelphian's Avatar
United States
3253 Posts
 Posted 12/31/2012  08:54 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add philadelphian to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Sweet! I was debating whether this was a méreau rather than a jeton. And now we have someone's name to put to the coin!
Here are the arms of the principality of Groesbeek, emblazoned I'd say, argent, a fess nebuly gules, crested with perhaps the same crown we see on this jeton/méreau:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groesbeek

And how many people can say they had the Pope grant them bubbles!
Edited by philadelphian
12/31/2012 08:56 am
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