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Scammers Gotta Love These! ... Forewarned Is Forearmed ...

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Pillar of the Community
CoinsKelly's Avatar
United States
3453 Posts
 Posted 02/12/2013  9:07 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CoinsKelly to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Answer - all of them, they just buy them to re-sell at full silver spot in a couple of months from now at the flea markets.


I had not thought of that.
Valued Member
United States
292 Posts
 Posted 02/12/2013  9:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add HaroldS to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Gott I'm Himmel He also has Engelhard Prospector rounds if you look at his other auctions.
Bedrock of the Community
sel_69l's Avatar
Australia
21788 Posts
 Posted 02/12/2013  9:22 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I just wonder how many scammers are buying them for re sale later on?
Valued Member
SDCrow's Avatar
United States
456 Posts
 Posted 02/12/2013  9:59 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SDCrow to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I can't imagine that Sunshine Minting isn't aware of the situation based on the number of listings (there are plenty more than the one shown by the OP), and looking at the sales history, but I contacted them anyway. I informed them of the situation and asked them to let me know if they would like assistance in reporting these types of auctions. I'll keep you guys posted on any correspondence if you're interested.

Pillar of the Community
cointagous's Avatar
United States
1143 Posts
Pillar of the Community
barryg's Avatar
United States
5862 Posts
 Posted 02/13/2013  2:32 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add barryg to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
And if you're into gold instead of silver, you can always get one of these...

Bedrock of the Community
sel_69l's Avatar
Australia
21788 Posts
 Posted 02/13/2013  5:43 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
barryg: I don't think there is any intention to deceive in this case.
I am almost 100% certain that the Nazis never produced this sort of thing.
The maunfacturers an sellers of this sort of material are relying on the naivety of an innocent buyer with zero knowledge to take the bait.

Caveat emptor can be a very effective and harsh teacher.
The roots of education can be bitter, but the fruits can be sweet.
Valued Member
wilhelm41's Avatar
Germany
138 Posts
 Posted 02/14/2013  12:10 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add wilhelm41 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm not really into bullion, so forgive my simple question. If the fake Sunshine Mint bars are brass, but come in at 1 troy oz, then are the fake bars a different size from authentic Sunshine Mint bars? Or is the brass about the same density as silver?

I guess what I'm really wondering if it's possible to identify these as fakes, without cutting into the bars or performing a specific gravity test.
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basebal21's Avatar
13014 Posts
 Posted 02/14/2013  12:30 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add basebal21 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Brass is close but silver has a greater mass. The sizes wont be the exact same, but a good one will be similar size. If you deal with them a lot you probably could eye ball out some fakes comparing it to a known real one or weighing them. Leads is a lot closer to silver and I've heard of the real good ones being real silver with the core hollowed and replaced with lead.

Its kind of like a numismatic fake. If you know the series really well you can spot most fakes but if youre new to the series or just dabble in it the fakes wont jump out at you. Of course some fakes are also better done than others.
Valued Member
wilhelm41's Avatar
Germany
138 Posts
 Posted 02/14/2013  12:48 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add wilhelm41 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hmm, interesting. Thanks basebal. You really have to watch yourself with online stuff. I'm sure these bars will either be resold on ebay, or as stated earlier, sold at flea markets.
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basebal21's Avatar
13014 Posts
 Posted 02/14/2013  01:08 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add basebal21 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The online really isn't as scary as its made out to be. Yea there are some bad apples on ebay but most sellers on there arent trying to knowingly pass off fakes on people. It seems that a lot of the risks can be removed just by staying away from deals that seem to good to be true. Of course you can also just stick to the reputable online dealers like the APMEX provident silvertowne ect and if you do happen to get a fake at least silvertowne and provident would replace it no questions asked. I'm sure APMEX would too I've just never really dealt with them personally. The bigger the bar too the more financial incentive to try and hollow it.

The good thing about ebay though is it doesn't even matter what a sellers return policy is since if its fake youll get refunded. They do provide a lot of protection for the buyer sometimes even at the expense of the sellers. Id honestly almost be more comfortable buying from there for stuff I'm not familiar with then an LCS I've never dealt with before because of the protection instead of possibly having to argue with a shop owner.
Valued Member
wilhelm41's Avatar
Germany
138 Posts
 Posted 02/14/2013  01:16 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add wilhelm41 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I guess since ebay favors buyers, there really is no risk. For offline purchases, I suppose really just comes down to knowing what you you're buying.

Thanks basebal. Lots of good info in this thread.
Pillar of the Community
supgog's Avatar
Israel
2420 Posts
 Posted 02/14/2013  07:39 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add supgog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I guess since ebay favors buyers, there really is no risk.


Wish this was true.
Some sellers are selling fake bars, and only a few buyers will even notice that their fake.

In which case, the seller might apologize, say it was a mistake and offer a refund. It won't help the others who think they have silver bars in the safe. Neither will ebay.
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poboxw's Avatar
Canada
1502 Posts
 Posted 02/14/2013  9:12 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add poboxw to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
i don't understand these "not ferrous" claims. Don't these scammers know that a decently strong magnet is SUPPOSE to illicit a bit of a pull from pure silver?
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macmercury's Avatar
United States
5833 Posts
 Posted 02/14/2013  9:36 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add macmercury to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The Feb. 25th issue of Coin World report that there are fake silver American Englehard Prospetus rounds being pass out into the market place, local dealers in Michigan and Texas reports customer with these coming in trying to sell these as silver rounds, and one seller refuse to allow the dealer to test for its purity.

The difference to these is that the fake have a proof like finish to it, while the genuine Englehard round has a duller appearance. These fake round contain 60% copper, 39% zine and 1%nickel. The law authority is working now to track where the source coming from, these fake along with other have been sold to pawn shops and jewelry stores.
Edited by macmercury
02/14/2013 9:37 pm
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