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Sk Apo-Digitar 80/6.7 (80Ad)

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 Posted 02/12/2013  12:52 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add rmpsrpms to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I just received an 80mm f6.7 Schneider-Kreuznach APO-DIGITAR from ebay (based on a tip from a member of another forum). This lens came out of a Colortrac scanner. It appears to be a custom, fixed-aperture version of the SK 80/6.7 APO-DIGITAR M 1:1 macro lens. My first impressions were very favorable so I decided to do a comparison between it, the 75ARD1, and the 105PN. I kept apertures at f6.7 for all shots to eliminate diffraction-related differences. The shots and crops below are unprocessed except for jpg conversion in the camera (T2i) with 0,0,0,0 sharp/cont/tint/sat settings. First shots are overall at full resolution, followed by crops at the chin and at WE of IGWT.

80AD
Sk-Apo-Digitar-80/6.7-80Ad
Sk-Apo-Digitar-80/6.7-80Ad
Sk-Apo-Digitar-80/6.7-80Ad

75ARD1
Sk-Apo-Digitar-80/6.7-80Ad
Sk-Apo-Digitar-80/6.7-80Ad
Sk-Apo-Digitar-80/6.7-80Ad

105PN
Sk-Apo-Digitar-80/6.7-80Ad
Sk-Apo-Digitar-80/6.7-80Ad
Sk-Apo-Digitar-80/6.7-80Ad

My conclusion is this a very fine lens indeed. Center sharpness is a bit lower than the 75ARD1, but edge sharpness is slightly better. Contrast is lower than 75ARD1 but this can be compensated somewhat in postprocessing.

Will be interested to hear comments...Ray
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 Posted 02/12/2013  1:10 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add rmpsrpms to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
To see the full resolution images, you need to go to my photobucket page and download the images manually. This is apparently a new feature for Photobucket beta, ie anyone, not just the owner, can access full-resolution images. Here's he link to the page with the images:

http://s943.beta.photobucket.com/us...ARD1%20105PN
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 Posted 02/12/2013  1:47 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Wow. That lens is right up there, and I completely agree with your observations. Shooting RAW, I can see this one as all but indistinguishable from the 75ARD.

Pricey?
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 Posted 02/12/2013  1:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add rmpsrpms to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm not sure of list price, but I paid $100 for it on ebay. Not cheap, but not outrageous. The fixed f6.7 is easier to work with for Cents (no stacking) than the f4 of the fixed 75ARD1's. Keep in mind these shots are all at f6.7, so the 75ARD1 and especially the 105PN are not at their best. But if you are going to shoot at f6.7 for good DOF then the 80AD is essentially equivalent to the 75ARD1.
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 Posted 02/12/2013  2:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
$100 is competitive with the fixed-aperture 75ARD, and a pretty darn good price for a lens that'll do what it does.

Just for the record - understanding the cyclical nature of the forum, and the many lurkers - the aperture numbers you're mentioning are all corrected for the magnification, right? And could I possibly get you to briefly restate the calculation? No need to get into a dissertation about diffraction and DOF; I'm planning a "basics of coin imaging" wall of textsticky for the midterm future. If you and the good Captain are willing to help me edit, that is.
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 Posted 02/12/2013  2:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CaptainFwiffo to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hmm, to me the 75ARD1 is a tad sharper near the edge, with the 80AD showing what I would interpret as a small amount of halation. Maybe there's a slight difference in where the two lenses were focused? Regardless, it comes very close to the 75ARD1 which is no mean feat (although I like to use that lens at f/5.6 where it performs a bit better). Of course, the PN is ridiculous.

For $100 it it does represent a nice alternative to the 75ARD1 for someone who wants a little step up from an el-cheapo.
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 Posted 02/12/2013  2:40 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add rmpsrpms to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
SD...I'd love to help with a coin imaging sticky, just let me know what you need. However, the apertures I quoted were infinity (ie what is stated on the lens), not effective. I figured no need to state effective aperture since they were all the same magnification and same infinity aperture. But for the sticky...

Effective Aperture = Infinity Aperture * (Magnification + 1)

If Mag = 0 (ie for infinity focus) then they are the same.

For these shots, M = 0.8 so the effective apertures are 6.7 * 1.8 = 12. This is beyond the T2i's diffraction limited aperture of f6.7, so the camera is partially limiting the resolution showing up in the 100% crop images. So in reality it's not a completely valid comparison, but is the best I can do given the 80AD's fixed f6.7.

One more note...for the T2i, at M = 0.8, the smallest aperture to not be diffraction limited is f3.7, so the wide-open 75ARD1 is just capable of hitting the limit on the T2i.
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 Posted 02/12/2013  4:09 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CaptainFwiffo to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If we want to get more specific, that effective aperture formula is correct (or close enough) for lenses with a pupil ratio of 1 (the 75ARD1 is symmetric, and has that property). For lenses with a different pupil ratio, the formula is more complicated and it might be hard to find out what the pupil ratio is for a given lens (or it could even be variable - likely the case in a lens which changes focal length like the Canon 100mm macros).

The simple formula could be only approximate, or it could be significantly wrong, and I don't understand all the math, so take all that stuff with a grain of salt. It generally works as a first-order approximation, and knowing the exact number is usually not important.

For microscope objectives, the formula to convert Numerical Aperture (NA) to a familiar infinity f-number is:

Infinity Aperture = 1/(2*NA) * MAG/(MAG+1)

The MAG+1 cancels out with the same component in the previous equation, so MAG/(2*NA) is the effective aperture for a microscope objective operating at its rated magnification. A common 4x/0.1 would therefore the rough equivalent of an f/4 lens. A 10x/0.25 is something like f/1.8. At high magnifications the MAG/(MAG+1) factor is close to 1 and so you frequently see the formula without it. The other caveats and addendums for that formula are beyond my ken.

Generally only macro people care about effective aperture and it's easier to just communicate the nominal/infinity f-number and magnification. For everyday photography of common macroscopic objects (e.g. a LOLCat), even at distances much closer than "infinity" the magnification is so low that it can be ignored. A typical domestic Felis catus lolrus of 60cm length more than fills the sensor at 0.04x, so the MAG+1 factor almost disappears. The effect is 1/3 of a stop (the smallest exposure step on most cameras) at 0.12x and a full stop at 0.41x (a half dollar fills an APS-C sensor at about 0.46x).
Edited by CaptainFwiffo
02/12/2013 4:22 pm
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