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New Paradigm; Sell The Rally?

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Pillar of the Community

United States
1590 Posts
 Posted 02/14/2013  12:51 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add jmkendall to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
For the last 4 years it's been "Buy the dip". Now I am seeing "Sell the Rally" popping up more, and more.

Buy the dip; always seemed to me to be a bull market tool to drive prices up.

A recent article by the WGC indicated that recycled Gold is on a decline. And that decline might accelerate due to the exhaustion of "old gold" in the hands of sellers. In other words the common person who could care less about the PM market have sold their coins, silverware, jewelry, ect; and there is little left out there to "mine".

Stacker demand is down due to "price exhaustion", and an aimless market. 3rd party investors are leaving the market due to lower and lower returns. Forget the "30 year uptrend"; their mantra is "What have you done for me this quarter?".

Industrial demand for PM's are down, no matter what the Cheerleaders are telling you. Also there is a surplus of silver in the market. I suspect there a lot of people that bought high and are trying to get some short term price hikes so they can sell.

Which brings up back to...."Sell the Rally"
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barryg's Avatar
United States
5855 Posts
 Posted 02/14/2013  12:58 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add barryg to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Well, if we're just talking about gold here (and not silver), then all I can say is that I have to first buy the dip before I can sell the rally...
Pillar of the Community
United States
3789 Posts
 Posted 02/14/2013  1:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add yup7676 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I just had been meaning to write up a small piece on whats been going on here with the PMs but yea....


Basically gold and silver have been range bound for weeks and weeks now. The range has been broken and resolved.. to the downside.... and it is down and it will continue its trend down.

Buying the dips going forward is going to be a painful proposition for anyone who does it each time. Sadly, the public continues to do something until it doesn't work and then wonders what happened.

Remember, what is cheap, will become cheaper. If anything as of yesterday, gold and silver should be sold short and not bought.

stick to market leaders in the PM area, that would be palladium and platinum.

The upside if you are buying physical coins? Well, there's gonna be a ton of bargains. I can already sense and smell desperate members of the public dumping their gold and silver coins... and as I thought, APMEX doing a deal with ebay did mark a top in the PMs market.

let me give you an EXAMPLE- I bought a family member a silver Somalian elephant. I knew this was going to drop hard but this was a gift. Had I waited a couple day of days (I couldn't because again, this was a gift and supplies are limited of these so I wasn't going to blow this gift like that since I know they LOVE elephants) it went from 42ish to 39ish in a handful of days.

But again, the upside is- flush out the general public and the love affair with gold and silver,,, and watch, in time it will be quietly working itself up again.

so dont blow your wad, sit tight and look for the deals. Again, let me repeat myself. DO NOT use all your cash at once, because these prices are going to slide even further and that LAST thing I want to see and read here is folks having remorse that they could have gotten it for less if they had waited,, so PLEASE PLEASE wait before buying a ton of coins at a time!

and now back to the trading desk!
Bedrock of the Community
basebal21's Avatar
13014 Posts
 Posted 02/14/2013  6:37 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add basebal21 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Like barry I dont have any gold. I've stayed away from it because I'm not comfortable at these prices, way to much room to go down. If it was me personally I would be looking to sell the rally especially if its getting close to where I bought it from.

Even for preppers I see no value in gold as a backup for a currency collapse. Its way to expensive. You would be better off getting 1500 dollars of supplies or silver which would bring back far more in a SHTF situation than a single gold coin.

Aside from a numismatic purchase the only reason I see to buy gold would be as an investment and I just dont see the money making potential there at these prices. A lot of risk for a fairly minimal reward right now
Pillar of the Community
United States
3789 Posts
 Posted 02/14/2013  10:41 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add yup7676 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I was buying gold as it was making yearly highs, ima at those points cost averages in GLD, buying on the way up were at 448, 772 and I stopped there. I am expecting gold to hit yearly lows at which point I will watch the reaction and depending on how it goes, begin to liquidate. Time will tell.

Gold proof coins and Silver proof I have been buying every single year as the prices rose.

This year I have been selling short gold and silver as it has moved lower.
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barryg's Avatar
United States
5855 Posts
 Posted 02/15/2013  09:27 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add barryg to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Again, let me repeat myself. DO NOT use all your cash at once


Always good advice, regardless of whether you think the market is going up or down in the long run. PMs should always be considered part of a balanced investment strategy. Keep in mind, of course, that different people have different resources available when it comes to purchasing PMS, and what would be one person's "whole wad" is another person's "fraction of fiat currency gaining no interest in the bank."

Silver is now just at $30 and gold is at $1615. A little bit more movement south and I think I'll be picking up a little bit of each. I've been meaning to pick up some Mexican Gold 50 Pesos for awhile, and I'm always up for another 100 ounce J&M Silver bar...
Pillar of the Community
United States
3789 Posts
 Posted 02/15/2013  10:57 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add yup7676 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yes. I want to be clear, I am not saying gold and silver are useless. I believe a little bit of your savings should be in some hard assets, including PMs. I am not financial advisor either. I am a trader.

That said, I can say based on the latest days action, that you should stay away from gold and silver for now. Why? Because they are going lower from here.

If you want to buy today, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE nibble. If you have a 100 bucks, spend on 25 on some silver as an example,,, go easy no matter how much you have.

right now the BIGGGGG money is being made right now as we speak selling silver and gold short so please don't get in the way of the selling!

PLEASEEEEEEE my friends, even if you don't agree with me, have caution, you WILL get better entry points into silver and gold.
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barryg's Avatar
United States
5855 Posts
 Posted 02/15/2013  11:12 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add barryg to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
All right, you talked me into it. I just pulled the trigger on a 100-ounce J&M Silver bar, a roll of 20 Austrian Silver Philharmonics and 5 Mexican Gold 50 Pesos....





Seriously, though -- I was originally going to get 10 Mexican Gold 50 Pesos, but I'll wait to see if gold drops further before buying the other 5.
Pillar of the Community
United States
3789 Posts
 Posted 02/15/2013  12:36 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add yup7676 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
hey Barry

yea I think, looking herei mean the volume is steady (selling) I think come Tuesday we get more selling becfore we get another bounce or chop.

the fact however that this week the steady range bound chop we had was resolved to the downside gives way to more selling ... till we hit areas of support which will again be only temporary before the markets decides to chop, resume selling or bounce. Out of three, best case scenario in coming weeks and days is a fall, followed by more chop/sideways before the next move resumes.

i wouldnt doubt in fact, one of biggest losers % wise will be gold and silver this year. I cant wait to see ebay with joe public dumping their eagles left and right.
Valued Member
United States
112 Posts
 Posted 02/15/2013  12:37 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Vesper to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'll preface this as well with - I am no expert - and am not giving advice... this is my opinion.

I would sell the rally. The only reason I cannot is that I am traveling abroad and have no access to my physical PMs.

So why?

I personally believe we are trending toward the end of a secular bear market.

http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/wp-con...-average.jpg

The above chart is an attempt to relate this long term bear marktet to previous ones over the last century. The chart below is gold over a similar period of time. They are nice to compare long term trends between equities and PMs.

http://www.macrotrends.org/1333/gol...orical-chart

I am on the selling side. Although I believe there will be more uncertainty and another significant slide in equities, I think we have seen the top in Au for some time to come.

What I observe is that at trailing ends of secular bear markets, gold declines from its high before equities hit their bottom and before beggining a new secular bull market; thus destroying the upside potential of PMs for years.

In the short term, I see Au on the decline. Then, the governments around the world will have to face some of the underlying issues (stop the can kicking) and thus uncertainty will return and give a price bump to PMs. I do not think, though, this bump will recover Au to the previous highs.

In conclusion. I am Au bear right now.

But... when the price does start falling, I will be purchasing slowly like others mentioned. I am more in it for collecting than investing. At least at these prices.
Edited by Vesper
02/15/2013 1:08 pm
Pillar of the Community
United States
3789 Posts
 Posted 02/15/2013  12:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add yup7676 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I like Vespers post and it reminded me of something I want to say-

I want to state fully, I am neither as pro or against PMs.

I LOVE coin collecting, my main focus for YEARS has been silver and gold proof coins, from private mints and gov mints.

As far as PMs go tho, I am a trend trader. I am looking for the trend and will either buy or sell them.

So, if I have given anyone the impression I am anti-pms, I'm not, nor am for them.

However, in coin form, as a collector, I appreciate their beauty and history they tell.
Valued Member
United States
112 Posts
 Posted 02/15/2013  1:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Vesper to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@yup

I like what you said...


Quote:
I cant wait to see ebay with joe public dumping their eagles left and right.
Pillar of the Community
United States
3789 Posts
 Posted 02/15/2013  2:09 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add yup7676 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@Vesper

yea I was thinking that's what we should start to see in the coming days, weeks and months.

And I'm sure it wont be just eagles, I bet Libertads, Pandas and probably even vintage gold coins. Because as these prices drop, and hard, panic will set in and, I mean I hate to say this but gold and silver have been pushed so hard on the public, that sadly, the general public is the one who takes the brunt of these moves.

This time we are seeing the big move to the downside in gold and silver.

Perhaps when the coin Ads disappear in the various newspapers such as Chicago Tribune, USA Today, we have some sort of temporary bottom. I would think that dealers are moving fast to move their inventory, as they have been for months now.
New Member
United States
37 Posts
 Posted 02/15/2013  4:59 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add veritek to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
In the past, I've used the following strategy with GLD and other ETFs/equities that I'm interested in owning for the long term:

During the down trend I buy next month PUT options. If any money is made at option expiration, I use that money to buy shares of the underlying stock/ETF. If the down trend is legit this works very well as you get to buy the shares at a discount with free money!

Just getting into physical so instead of buying shares of GLD with any earnings from this down trend I get to buy the real thing!
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barryg's Avatar
United States
5855 Posts
 Posted 02/15/2013  5:43 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add barryg to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Well, I think I did pretty good today. I bought when gold had crept just above $1600 to $1604 and silver was still at around $29.80. The rest of the day silver went down a bit more but then came back up to $29.80 and gold actually went up a bit to $1610.

Usually, when I make a purchase as prices are falling I misjudge the bottom and the prices end up continuing to drop sharply immediately after my purchase. Who knows what the future holds, but I bought what I wanted to buy at the price I wanted to buy it at.
Bedrock of the Community
basebal21's Avatar
13014 Posts
 Posted 02/15/2013  6:10 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add basebal21 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Because as these prices drop, and hard, panic will set in and, I mean I hate to say this but gold and silver have been pushed so hard on the public, that sadly, the general public is the one who takes the brunt of these moves.


I agree.

Ive personally stayed away from Gold for this very reason. I do think at some point we could see a pretty aggressive drop in gold if none of the deep pockets step in with some massive purchases to flatten it out. Once a decline starts the panic will set in and the market will be flooded with people either trying to make a few bucks while they can or get out before they lose a lot
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