Coin Community Family of Web Sites Join Thousands of Coin, Bullion, & Money Collectors
Specializing in Modern Numismatics Royal Canadian Mint products, Canadian, Polish, American, and world coins and banknotes. Shop for APMEX Bullion on eBay!300,000 items to help build your collection! Vancouvers #1 Coin and Paper Money Dealer Join Thousands of Coin, Bullion, & Money Collectors Coin, Banknote and Medal Collectors's Online Mall








Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?


This page may contain links that result in small commissions to keep this free site up and running.

Welcome Guest! Registering and/or logging in will remove the anchor (bottom) ads. It's Free!

PMD? Twenty Dollar Note

To participate in the forum you must log in or register.
Author Previous TopicReplies: 16 / Views: 4,151Next Topic
Page: of 2
New Member

Australia
45 Posts
 Posted 03/12/2013  06:27 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add mleivers71 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Received this from a atm today!! I was happy to find a last prefix 2002 note, then I turned it over it
looks like the black print is missing but the red is very low in colour or faded!!

? print error / PMD / acetone / what do you think?


PMD?-Twenty-Dollar-Note

PMD?-Twenty-Dollar-Note

Pillar of the Community
enworb's Avatar
Australia
4411 Posts
 Posted 03/12/2013  07:12 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add enworb to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Just above the security window seems to be a few scratches. If you look closely at the notes with a loupe can you see scratches/scrapes? I would be leaning more towards PMD at this early stage but its and interesting one. I would be surprised if a genuine error note so severe circulated for 11 years before being noticed.
Pillar of the Community
The Unicorn's Avatar
Australia
750 Posts
 Posted 03/12/2013  5:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add The Unicorn to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I can't see how it could be PMD. The image of Mary Reibey along with the mast of the ship to her left, the building on her right is all too clear.

To me the black is missing.

What a great find

Especially as Enworb mentioned, after 11 years.
Moderator
Learn More...
Sap's Avatar
Australia
16810 Posts
 Posted 03/12/2013  6:42 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If it were merely the black ink missing, then the red ink ought to be unaffected, and the bits that are supposed to be entirely black (such as the name beneath the portrait) would not be visible at all.

It's PPD - post-printing damage (it can't really be " PMD"; since it's a banknote it was never "minted"). Likely a solvent or erasive of some kind, applied directly onto the black bits. Notice how the red ink far away from any black bits remains unaffected.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
Pillar of the Community
MobOfRoos's Avatar
Australia
762 Posts
 Posted 03/12/2013  6:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add MobOfRoos to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply


This was probably a practice note for a dodgy ebay seller
Pillar of the Community
The Unicorn's Avatar
Australia
750 Posts
 Posted 03/12/2013  9:32 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add The Unicorn to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I hate to disagree but I'm still not convinced.

Does anyone know if the black is applied in several layers?

Perhaps a top layer of black that emphasises the pattern is what's not there?

Surely a solvent would remove at least some the red also and I can't see any evidence of the red pattern being impacted at all. Likewise the clarity of the black that is there seems unaffected.

Pillar of the Community
enworb's Avatar
Australia
4411 Posts
 Posted 03/12/2013  10:00 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add enworb to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I think it has been physically removed rather than with a solvent. Pretty sure all of the black ink is done in one layer.
Pillar of the Community
The Unicorn's Avatar
Australia
750 Posts
 Posted 03/12/2013  10:01 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add The Unicorn to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I grabbed the following from the RBA site.

The first printing process involves the background colours and patterns being printed onto both sides of the polymer sheets at the same time by simultan printing machines. These machines can print up to 8,000 sheets per hour.

Following the simultan printing the major design elements such as the portraits are printed using intaglio printing machines, with ink being transferred to the substrate under great pressure. Separate print runs are required for each side of the sheet. The resulting raised print is one of the important security features of Australia's polymer banknotes.

Serial numbers are then added to the sheets using a letterpress printing process.

In a final print run, the banknote sheets are given two coats of a protective overcoating ink using an offset printing press. This overcoat contributes to the extended durability of polymer banknotes as it protects the printing. It also helps to keep the banknotes clean.

http://banknotes.rba.gov.au/production.html

I'd be hanging onto it if I were you mleivers71.

I can't really think of a way to confirm yay or nay, but perhaps get in contact with Mick Vort Ronald and get his thoughts? (I haven't contacted him since the introduction of OCR-B serial numbers in the early 80's, but I'm sure he's still around).
Pillar of the Community
The Unicorn's Avatar
Australia
750 Posts
 Posted 03/12/2013  10:06 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add The Unicorn to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
That's a thought Enworb ..... we might have to get Trout to do some replication analysis
Pillar of the Community
enworb's Avatar
Australia
4411 Posts
 Posted 03/12/2013  10:06 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add enworb to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Mick has been at the SA numismatic society the past few meeting I've been to. I think the next meeting is next thursday 21st. I could show him the picture and see what he thinks. Any chance you could post a larger pic so I can print it off?
Pillar of the Community
trout1105's Avatar
Australia
7096 Posts
 Posted 03/12/2013  11:12 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add trout1105 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
That's a thought Enworb ..... we might have to get Trout to do some replication analysis


I put that note I "Doctored" back into circulation today
I wonder how long it takes before it is up on ebay
New Member
Australia
45 Posts
 Posted 03/13/2013  06:52 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mleivers71 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
hope this is a bit bigger

PMD?-Twenty-Dollar-Note
Pillar of the Community
enworb's Avatar
Australia
4411 Posts
 Posted 03/13/2013  07:44 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add enworb to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yep that is bigger now. Should be alright to print.
Pillar of the Community
goatieman23's Avatar
Australia
869 Posts
 Posted 03/15/2013  6:52 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add goatieman23 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Okay, my point of view. It is very likely that the note is genuine.
A couple pointers:

  • The non-serial side of banknotes, generally aren't looked at.

  • There is still minor ink there, so the image can be seen faintly, but that side of the note isn't generally seen as black ink, but moreso grey & being that there's still some minor ink there, that could've allowed it to make it this far through circulation

  • The coat of arms does not stand out in it's bright red colour as in the PPD notes that we've seen on eBay

  • The side that has the window partially scratched is the side that has the ink issue, so it could have been part of the process as it does look quite messed up above the window, or someone could've thought it was fake & scratched around it to see?



That's pretty much my point of view.
Below is one I brought from an IAG auction. It's not nearly as dark as a normal $50, but it's not as light as that $20, mind you, I think the condition of the $50 is a little better.


PMD?-Twenty-Dollar-Note
Pillar of the Community
enworb's Avatar
Australia
4411 Posts
 Posted 03/20/2013  8:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add enworb to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I am unable to make it to the NSSA meeting tonight now. Sorry mleivers! Maybe if robater sees this post he can print it and take it along?
New Member
Australia
45 Posts
 Posted 03/21/2013  04:13 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mleivers71 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
No problems enworb
I was thinking of listing it on ebay but as I'm a polymer man, and a twenty dollar lover maybe it's just going to end-up in my collection as a possible error note.
  Previous TopicReplies: 16 / Views: 4,151Next Topic
Page: of 2

To participate in the forum you must log in or register.



    




Disclaimer: While a tremendous amount of effort goes into ensuring the accuracy of the information contained in this site, Coin Community assumes no liability for errors. Copyright 2005 - 2026 Coin Community Family- all rights reserved worldwide. Use of any images or content on this website without prior written permission of Coin Community or the original lender is strictly prohibited.
Contact Us  |  Advertise Here  |  Privacy Policy / Terms of Use

Coin Community Forum © 2005 - 2026 Coin Community Forums
It took 0.45 seconds to rattle this change. Forums