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Rare Gold Coin And Pocket Watch - Keep Together?

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New Member

United States
7 Posts
 Posted 04/27/2013  04:13 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Trueshooter to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
My dilemma is that I'm considering selling the watch and fob, and I'm unsure whether I should keep them together, or sell them separately.

Rare Gold Coin Watch Fob (Two specimens known) 1668-A Louis XIV,
Louis d'or (Dr/4 no. 366)

Pocket Watch with historical value associated with the political history of Guatemala.
Watch, likely Bernard Poitevin circa 1880's (approx), No. 6110.
Signed: V. Lejeune, 16, Rue de la Banque, Paris. Movement is by Louis B Audemars.

Here's a link to the images of the watch and coin fob:
http://s589.photobucket.com/user/tr...0Pocketwatch
and a link to information concerning the coin:
http://www.coinfactswiki.com/wiki/F...louis_d%27or

The watch was custom made for Juan Aparicio, who was later jailed and shot by political influences (most likely, Interior Minister Manuel Estrada Cabrera), during the administration of then President Reina Barrios. His story is in Spanish and can be found at this link:
http://www.elperiodico.com.gt/es/20...inion/225654
I'm considering selling the pieces, possibly through Heritage. But I'd like some insight into whether I should keep the pieces together or offer them separately.

Numismatists at the local coin shop, and a couple watch collectors I know have shared the following:
Most coin collectors are interested in coins and not watches. Therefore they will most likely bid on the coin with little regard for the watch. On the other hand a collector of watches might not want to spend an extra few thousand dollars to buy a watch simply because it has a rare coin attached, in spite of its' provenance. And
a collector of historical memorabilia is less apt to be interested in the rarity of a coin than the historical reference to Juan Aparicio. So to accrue the best price it benefits me to split up the set. But that goes against my grain. Even though I am narrowing my market by keeping them together, and maybe even compromising the eventual remuneration. Although it would bum me out if for the sake of historical integrity I sold the set to someone who later breaks it up and makes a profit on my moral conscience.

So I'm a bit conflicted and would appreciate further insight.
Thanks.
Valued Member
United States
292 Posts
 Posted 04/27/2013  1:44 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add HaroldS to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Wow. What a dilemma to have.
Valued Member
hammerrob's Avatar
United States
98 Posts
 Posted 04/27/2013  4:13 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add hammerrob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I don't get the connection between the watch and the coin. Without some meaningful connection between them I don't think anyone will appreciate their value as a lot. Just my Two Cents.
Pillar of the Community
justin3651's Avatar
United States
621 Posts
 Posted 04/27/2013  4:28 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add justin3651 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Do you have a non Spanish version of that story you linked to? I don't speak Spanish.
New Member
United States
7 Posts
 Posted 04/28/2013  03:22 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Trueshooter to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
True enough. The people who will most connect with the provenance will be people who connect with the story. That would most likely be Spanish speaking or of Spanish heritage. The connection between the watch and the coin is the same as if Charlie Chaplin's Hat and Cane were offered at auction. They have value together or separately. But for many each piece maintains greater value in respect to provenance if kept together.

On the other hand, the story is provocative. In his day Juan Aparicio was a Captain of Industry in Guatemala in the same manner as John D. Rockefeller was in the United States. He was an important figure in commerce having vast holdings and great wealth. One of his positions was as Director of the Bank of the West, a Blue-blood (his family lineage traced from the Conquistadors), he had political influence and yet in spite of his position and wealth a man for the people. He was jailed by the newly elected President when the candidate whose campaign he financed lost. His wife went to plead his case. The president promised to release him, but the Minister of Interior intercepted the message of amnesty and Juan Aparicio was shot. The reason, years earlier a servant who worked for the Aparicio family was accused of stealing flatware and jailed. When the son of this servant became Minister of Interior, he saw his opportunity for revenge. There is obviously more to the story and many more dynamics involved, but this at least touches on enough of his history to offer a glimps. But imagine his wealth. The family used 18kt gold flatware as well as sterling, and the watch is ostentatious enough, but to use a rare coin (it was rare even in his day), and use it as a watch fob.

At any rate, I've been trying to accrue insight from both watch and coin forums alike. I think I've finally figured out what I will do. The market will ultimately rise to make the call. Anyone purchasing the set might well break it up. But if offered individually at the "same auction," each apprising bidders of the connection between them, anyone purchasing one would want the other in order to preserve provenance and add value to the other. If that call is not made, then whoever would have purchased the set would have most probably broken it up anyway. So in my mind, I can still accrue the maximum potential remuneration while making available the option to anyone interested in preserving provenance. I see it as a brilliant idea offered by Peter T. Davis. Thank you Peter. This option at least offers me some alleviation of conscience.
Edited by Trueshooter
04/28/2013 03:25 am
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sel_69l's Avatar
Australia
21788 Posts
 Posted 04/28/2013  05:23 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
More important the watch.
If you can prove provenance, with any documentation, it should command more than double at auction with, than without.
Needs to be investigated by a professional, expert in antique watches. Don't sell before you do.
New Member
United States
7 Posts
 Posted 04/29/2013  10:38 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Trueshooter to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Absolutely sage advice sel_691. Thank you. Proving provenance will be my next project. It shouldn't be too difficult considering it has both his name and initials on it, it was made during his lifetime, it was given to my grandfather who was an avid collector of watches and coins, and an attorney for the Aparicio family beginning around the 1930's. When he passed away among his collection he left the watch, coin, and two books written by Edgar Juan Aparicio y Aparicio (grandson). The books are written about the lineage of notable Spanish families (among them the Aparicios), traced from the time of the Conquistadors. The titles are:
1. Conquistadores de Guatemala y Fundadores de Familias Guatemaltecas
2. Los Gutierrez Marroquin y Sus Descendientes

Each book also includes a handwritten note to my grandfather signed by the author in recognition of their friendship.
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