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Replies: 18 / Views: 6,681 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1536 Posts |
I bought this lot of Indian heads. Many appeared to be sticky and several had verdigris. The coins with verdigris I put some verdigris on a cloth and twirled the coin on it and the verdigris came right off on the cloth. It appeared the verdigris was new and rubbed off on to other coins. The coins appeared to be sticky. The coins all seamed to be sticky and decided to do something about that and soaked them in 90% alcohol for 30 seconds and rinsed in distilled water and of course since alcohol removes crud, more verdigris appeared on other coins. I am wondering what are some causes of newly formed verdigris. They seemed to be stored in a paper jewelry box, could that be the reason?
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1151 Posts |
The box could be the cause, but usually verdigris is caused by moisture.
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Moderator
 United States
23522 Posts |
I'm going to await more knowledgeable voices, but my impression is that this probably wasn't verdigris. I don't expect that to be either "sticky" or responsive to alcohol.
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
1536 Posts |
Actually the green stuff was not responsive to alcohol, it was responsive to Verdi-care instantly and just came off with little effort and left green stuff on the cloth. Crud and things like tape adhesive are responsive to alcohol. I would have soaked them in acetone for a while in a dark place, but I am reluctant to use acetone on coppers. I agree though, verdigris is caused by moisture. I soaked some Wheat cent roll finds and forgot to dry them, and the next day they were green. I know the coins were sticky because pieces of dust or whatnot were sticking to the coins. Perhaps they were there or it is time to dust the table I sort through them. The green stuff wasn't really sticky because even coins without it were sticky. I was mostly talking about the coins were all sticky overall regardless if they had green stuff or not.
Edited by buddy16cat 05/13/2013 8:38 pm
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Moderator
 United States
23522 Posts |
Well, that's why I deferred; I've no expertise with the formative stages of verdigris and if it's that liquid in the early stages I'd never know. I *can* say that damage from PVC outgassing would never proceed that quickly, so you probably got it right for the coins.
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
1536 Posts |
I am thinking they may have been sticky because of the moisture, the same reason there was verdigris on it. I don't think that was a proper container to ship them in because of that jewelry box was probably coated with PVC and who knows what. I don't really know too much how verdigris progresses either, but luckily the verdigris was removed early and their appears to be no damage to the coin underneath. I think the longer it sits on the coin the harder to get off and the more damage done. This of course is BadThad's expertise. Soaking 90% alcohol was just something that was told to me by the moderator of the About.com forum to kill germs. I notice it is also good for removing tape adhesive and crud without discoloring the coin. Of course after removing crud off of some coins, there was verdigris underneath that needed to be removed. I actually prefer to leave coins alone, but sometimes something needs to be done to stop damage from occurring.
Edited by buddy16cat 05/13/2013 9:42 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
624 Posts |
I got virdigris on a 1934 German (Nazi) Reichstag clad coin. It appeared only in high relief areas. My best guess is that it was a combination of storing in a PVC plastic holder and moisture. I experimented a little and soaked the coin in 100% Acetone for 3 days and the green wiped off with light tamping from a couple of Q-tips.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
19975 Posts |
I don't like using isopropyl alcohol on coins at all....I don't recommend it. It's usually ineffective and I've seen it alter the patina.
In reference to your thread title, verdigris forms from exposure to air. Verdigris needs to only one thing to develop....AIR. There is sufficient carbon dioxide and water in air to start the formation of copper carbonate. Then toss in chlorine, phosphorus and sulfur, and you can make the different chemical variants.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
19975 Posts |
Here is my definition of verdigris I wrote for my book and Wikipedia:
Verdigris is a variable chemical mixture of compounds, complexes and water. The primary components are copper salts of acetate, carbonate, chloride, formate, hydroxide and sulfate. The secondary components are other metallic salts, acids (organic and mineral), atmospheric gases and water. All the components are in an ever-changing and extremely sophisticated electrochemical reaction equilibrium that is dependent on the ambient environment.
Lincoln Cent Lover!VERDI-CARE™ INVENTOR https://verdi.care/
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
12437 Posts |
Green and sticky sounds more like PVC residue, not verdigris.
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
1536 Posts |
I have soaked coins in alcohol but think it is best not to do it for more than 30 seconds. I have used acetone on coppers in the dark because it will react in the light I read. For those coins that are worth a little more, I only used distilled water before applying Verdi-care to them. Fortunately the green stuff came off just by rotating it on a cloth with Verdi-care on it. Maybe acetone in the dark is better than alcohol? I just heard soaking coins in alcohol from the forum admin from About.com. I find it removes crud rather quickly. If it was PVC though acetone is good for that but if not done right it can discolor coppers I heard.
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
1536 Posts |
Huh, maybe it was PVC. I see some still on one coin but maybe there was verdigris and PVC on them. I probably could have just used acetone with a distilled water rinse. I soaked them briefly in acetone but am a little reluctant even in the dark because of stories of coppers discoloring. They look good except they are still wet from Verdi-care. 
Edited by buddy16cat 05/15/2013 10:23 pm
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
20753 Posts |
Quote: I have used acetone on coppers in the dark because it will react in the light I read. I've used Acetone on Copper coins in a jar in the Sun, in the shade, in total darkness. If you find someone that says the Sun and Acetone will change Copper, it may well be they used a different Sun than I did. Exactly what color was the contamination on your coins. If it was greenish in color, it is the reaction of Sulfur Acids in the air. If you see or know anyone with Copper pipping in their homes and it goes into the house, you may also see that same green color to their Copper Pipes. In many areas the burning of Sulfur rich coal emitted Sulfur Oxide into the air and when that mixes with the moisture in the air, it becomes an Acid. You may have heard of damage to statues and other outdoor items from what has been called Acid Rain. That is the rain that goes through the Sulfur Oxided Air and becomes an acid. On many coins, if left exposed to this, they usually turn green. That is the remains of Copper Sulfate or Copper Sulfite. However, on coins it now has become part of the coin and when you remove it, your also remove part of the coin's metal. Slight, but part of the coin is now gone. The stickyness you explained could be almost anything that was in that container or what the container was made of. As already noted Alcohol is not a good thing for cleaning coins. That paper box may well have had Sulfur in the paper mixture. Regardless, get all those coins away from that box.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
20753 Posts |
Not to get to boring about Acid Rain but some time back we were testing the grounding system at a power station. It was found that almost all the Copper Grounding system was crytalized into Copper Sulfate and almost completely useless. All had to be replaced with Lead Covered Copper cables and stainless Steel Ground rods.
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
1536 Posts |
You are right, the stickiness could be anything. I was told that alcohol doesn't affect coins, I will have to Google that. I only soaked them in alcohol for 30 seconds since it does remove tape residue if that was what it was. I probably should have just left them in acetone for a little while and that is all. I always give a distilled water rinse after soaking in anything. People have told me several times that acetone can discolor coppers I personally haven't had an issue but people swear it will discolor coppers. Distilled water is always the safest. I had a 1874 with some green stuff on it, that one I just soaked in distilled water and applied Verdi-care and that is all.
Yes, I took the coins out of the jewelry box. I have coin envelopes and mylar flips.
Edited by buddy16cat 05/15/2013 10:42 pm
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
1536 Posts |
Anyone know about nickels having verdigris? I soaked this nickel in acetone and it turned green. I treated it with Verdi-care and it is gone. It is dark but not as dark as it was with the crud. 
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Replies: 18 / Views: 6,681 |