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Replies: 28 / Views: 7,112 |
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Valued Member
 United States
460 Posts |
Wow!.......these photos have nothing to do with my error type unless they were posted randomly. So far off from what I am presenting that I don't even know what to say. Frustrating but everyone can have their own opinion, enough said.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1472 Posts |
Have you weighed any of your errors? How thick is the metal at the deep spots on your coins?
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
937 Posts |
Sorry if it looked like your thread was being hijacked, Zimmy. I think Zonad was just trying to show a couple of more extreme examples of the effect shown on your coins. No offense was meant; your coins are fantastic.
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Valued Member
 United States
460 Posts |
Those examples have nothing to do with my error type. They aren't extreme examples of what I was showing. Zonad, the 1967 cent weighs 3.3 grams, the 1978 cent weighs 3.2 grams, the Buffalo nickel weigh 4.9 grams and the Ike dollar weighs 22.7 grams.......all normal weights as expected for this error type.
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Valued Member
 United States
460 Posts |
Sometimes I get a little testy but this error type is pretty scarce and although I have numerous examples, many of which aren't shown, it has taken me years to accumulate. In all my years of collecting, I have never seen a Buffalo nickel of this type although I am sure there are some out there.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2739 Posts |
I don't know if the first coin shows a brockage from a struck fragment. I do see what appear to be incuse design details in the floor of the depression but can't tell exactly what they represent. The other coins Zimmy presented are cases of brockages from struck fragments. The coins that Zonad presented show ghost images that bled through the coin from the opposite die. Ghost images are blurry and never expanded. Brockages are sharper and are often expanded.
Error coin writer and researcher.
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Valued Member
Canada
387 Posts |
This thread has been very interesting. As it has helped me with the condition that I have listed in the following post: https://goccf.com/t/150328It is a Canadian toonie and after viewing this thread I can actually see part of the impression of A from "Canada" reverse show up on the obverse. I guess I will have to weigh the coin to determine whether it is a condition similar to Zonad or to Zimmy. Thank you
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1472 Posts |
Zimmy, I realize now you may be right on some but not necessarily all of this type of strike throughs. I believe if the missing portion is deep enough you may get bleed through from the opposite die. The deeper the depression the thinner the coin is at that spot and the clearer the ghosting is. That is what I was hoping you would realize from my photos. As MikeD said, the image would the correct size if it is bleed through.
Edited by Zonad 05/23/2013 08:30 am
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Valued Member
 United States
460 Posts |
There is no missing portion on these struck throughs. The planchets start as normal weight, fully formed planchets before they are struck. The image on the struck coin is caused from the transfer of design from the struck fragment bonded to the die. The depression is caused by the fragment being struck into the planchet. The depth of the struck through area will depend on how thick the fragment is.
Paisa, It does seem to match up nicely and the image does look like part of the A but hard to tell for sure from your pictures. If it is struck through a struck fragment, then it is a weaker example.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2739 Posts |
Many brockages through struck fragments also show no expansion. Expansion is constrained by the surrounding coin metal.
Zonad is correct that if the impression is deep enough, an unstruck fragment can theoretically generate an incuse ghost image in the floor of the depression. However, I've never actually seen an example, at least in a coin struck within the collar.
Error coin writer and researcher.
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New Member
United States
3 Posts |
I have a few struck-in cents and they're really interesting to examine and detect the process that caused them--based upon easy visual clues. I have: 1) an 1859 Indian Head with a struck-in piece of steel die (responds VIGOROUSLY to a magnet) driven into the planchet from the hammer-die (obverse) side without piercing through to the reverse--it displays a correspondingly large cud-like area on the reverse, with no portion of the reverse being penetrated. The magnet also reacts to the steel inside the coin on the reverse, through the Cu-Ni. There is a raised metal-flow edge on the obverse around the entry-point of the struck-in die fragment, like the rim of an impact crater; and, 2) an 1863 Indian Head with a round copper fragment driven through the coin by the press. This fragment pierces the coin completely, and it has significant metal flow raised edges around the penetration site on BOTH sides of the coin. Both of these fragments--in the 1859, and the 1863--are about the size of a dried lentil; and 3) a delightful discovery--a 1926-S Lincoln with two struck-in fragments of GOLD in the reverse that seem to literally GLOW due to the inclusive coin having a nice dark chocolate brown patina. One fragment appears like a smear of gold, with no raised portions around the fragment, but the second fragment must be significantly larger, because it displays a raised metal-flow edge all around the entry point of that gold fragment into the planchet. There is no distortion seen on the obverse that indicates that there is any struck-in fragment from the reverse, but the wear level of the coin might indicate that any evidence of a retained fragment that appeared upon the obverse was worn away with time and friction. The only US gold coins that the San Francisco Mint struck in 1926 were $20 Double Eagles, so any fragments falling into the presses that year would, of necessity, be due to the coinage of St. Gaudens Double Eagles. The gold fragment in the 26-S Lincoln must have fallen into the empty strike chamber between the dies of the press, then there was a planchet fed on top of it. I can be reasonably sure of this, because the gold fragment was struck in from the anvil die (reverse) side. It weighs in at 3.14 grams, even though it is worn to the level of an AG-03 graded Lincoln. A comparably worn AG-03, 1919 Lincoln that I have weighs 3.04 grams. and another AG-03 Lincoln, dated 1927-D, weighs in @3.05 grams. If anyone is interested, I'll take and post a few pics.
Edited by Phuqit 01/04/2014 11:42 am
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Valued Member
Canada
334 Posts |
Zimmy
it is definitely struck through a struck fragment . The others are confusing error types .
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
519 Posts |
I'm interesting in seeing pictures Phuqit.
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Replies: 28 / Views: 7,112 |