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Wtc Ground Zero Coins

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Stephen420's Avatar
United States
411 Posts
 Posted 05/19/2007  12:17 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Stephen420 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I recently bought a coin on ebay that was recovered from a safe that was found in the rubble at Ground Zero over a year after the attacks. In that safe there were somewhere around 1,000 coins, many of which were silver Eagles. Many of these coins were certified and encapsulated by PCGS. (I used PCGS's cert verification service to verify the grade and provenance of my coin.) Most of these coins cert'd by PCGS are in PCGS plastic holders with an American flag motif insert, along with the words: "9-11-01 WTC Ground Zero Recovery" and the grades on all but two coins I've seen are limited to "Gem BU". There are several of these coins on ebay. My coin, however, is graded MS69. The other coin was apparently cracked out of one of those holders and sent for grading. That coin is in a PCGS holder with the same words on it, the grade (MS68) but no American flag motif.

1) Do most collectors know about this little hoard?
2) Does anyone have an opinion on why some (including mine) were apparently graded with number grades, while others just say "GEM BU"?
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TSmith3510's Avatar
United States
455 Posts
 Posted 05/19/2007  12:49 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TSmith3510 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I remember reading a story in the paper when they were doing the clean up at ground zero that they had found the safety deposit boxes from a bank that was on the concourse level. The metal boxes and their contents were in very poor shape, melted, ruined, etc. Keep in mind how intense the temperatures were. I hadn't heard that there were pieces that survived in MS condition. Call me a skeptic, but this ebay auction sound suspicious.
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Stephen420's Avatar
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 Posted 05/19/2007  1:38 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Stephen420 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
As I said, the information is verified on PCGS's website, not just the grade but also the insert indicating that the coin came from that hoard. I don't see how that could be the case if this was a con.
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
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 Posted 05/19/2007  2:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Oh, they're real enough, all right. There was plenty of coinage stored underneath the collapsed buildings in vaults which survived the collapse relatively undamaged. The Brilliant Uncirculated versions were less-than-Gem examples which weren't worth the cost of precise grading, just slabbed and thrown into the market.

The whole affair nauseates me.
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Stephen420's Avatar
United States
411 Posts
 Posted 05/19/2007  3:53 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Stephen420 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm sorry to hear that SuperDave. I rarely buy on impulse, but this looked important to me. I probably should have listened to my inner miser, but I didn't. Also, I probably should have consulted the Community here before I did it, but once I determined that the coin was genuinely what it claimed to be, I couldn't think of any objections.

I hope it's not going to be a source of regret. Everyone has a 9/11 story and I'm no exception. I live in New York City and watched the whole thing unfold from a 17th story window across the East River, so it seemed pretty incredible (and somewhat emotional) to find out that a safe could have the entire North Tower fall on it and still survive. In any case, I definitely have to "make room" for the coin now, whether it's as important as I thought at first or not, meaning I have to sell something. I'm glad I got one with a grade though.

Edited by Stephen420
05/19/2007 6:05 pm
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
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 Posted 05/19/2007  4:22 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Stephen, as a New Yorker I can see you being "closer" to the situation, and perhaps more qualified to make a moral judgment regarding the whole thing than I am. It just feels like blatant profiteering to me, taking advantage of a horrible tragedy just to fill your pockets. Not a penny of the money generated by these coins goes anywhere near the victims or the recovery effort.

As a counterpoint, though, I own a piece of coal recovered from the Titanic. Is that the same thing? Maybe so. Either way, this is only my own opinion, and I can easily understand and coexist with opinions about it different than my own.
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Stephen420's Avatar
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411 Posts
 Posted 05/19/2007  6:06 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Stephen420 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
UPDATE: The coin arrived today, less than 24 hours after ordering. That's apparantly because it was shipped from Brooklyn to Manhattan. It's quite beautiful, as you would expect an Eagle to be. It has a satin, rather than matte, finish. I'm probably going to be glad to have this. Thanks very much SuperDave and TSmith for your comments.
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toast's Avatar
Australia
1091 Posts
 Posted 05/19/2007  8:49 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add toast to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The coin will serve as a reminder of that event. Something that is still so painful many people would rather forget. Yet in time this coin is a piece of History as coins recovered from hundred year old shipwrecks or old German coins with nazi symbols. It's history but gives off mixed emotions.

When my daughter was in Germany she bought me a tiny piece of concrete from the Berlin Wall.
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biokemist6's Avatar
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 Posted 05/20/2007  12:39 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add biokemist6 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The vast majority of precious metals recovered from the WTC site was from the COMEX vaults (COMEX is the metals trading division of the New York Mercantile Exchange) in the sub-basement areas of the WTC complex. The most prevalent form was in bars but also US gold, silver, and platinum bullion Eagles, and foreign silver, gold, platinum, and palladium bullion coins.

The COMEX vaults held precious metals for the active commodities trading market but they also stored precious metals for clients. After most of the debris of WTC had been cleaned up, access to the basement area was possible. The vaults were uncovered and the contents were moved to other secure locations in the New York area.

A client that stored Silver American Eagles in the COMEX vaults on Sept 11 would have paperwork proving that those Eagles were there on that tragic day and they would be able to get the provenance listed on the slab. I believe that many more than 1,000 coins were slabbed as I remember counting over 100 separate listings on ebay alone in 2003 or 2004 when I first heard about them.

When a slab lists "Gem BU" that is a sign of a mass submission of hundreds or thousands of coins. It takes less time and is less expensive to grade a large quantity coins when you only have to determine that they are truly mint state. It all comes down to who submitted the coin- the largest holders probably did a bulk submission while some smaller holders had them graded accurately.
Edited by biokemist6
05/20/2007 03:39 am
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Bryan1315's Avatar
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 Posted 05/20/2007  02:00 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bryan1315 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have mostly heard these coins called "blood coins" that PCGS and others tried to capitalize on a tragedy that happened because of all the strong feelings we all felt about 9-11
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Joeyuk's Avatar
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 Posted 05/20/2007  10:14 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Joeyuk to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here is a quote from David Hall (PCGS) on the subject.

PCGS Answer: On the death coins. This was one of the toughest and touchiest decisions we ever made.
In the months following Sept 11, we were approached on numerous occasions to do coin-related projects. We rejected all the projects except one PCGS project from one source. After considerable thought, we decided to do the one PCGS project because we knew the people handling the deal very well, they assured us that everything would be handled in the best possible way, and they assured us a hefty donation would be made to the victims. It is our understanding that there are 4 direct retailers of these coins, that the two largest have committed to donating between 6% and 12% of the gross sales price to the fireman/victims funds, and that the largest retailer has raised close to $400,000 for the funds.
It was certainly not our intention to participate in anything that is disrespectful to our country or the victims of our National tragedy. I hope this is explains what we did and why we did it. Like I said, it was a touchy decision.


And on a related note here is a quarter PCGS specialy slabbed to auction off on the forum to raise money for the firefighters/police and familes effected. The auction raised about $45,000.
Wtc-Ground-Zero-Coins
Joe
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Stephen420's Avatar
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411 Posts
 Posted 05/20/2007  12:28 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Stephen420 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks to everyone for the info. I'm especially grateful to Joeyuk for the David Hall quote. Watching those towers fall was and remains the most incomprehensible thing I ever hope to see. Although I have lived within a five-mile radius of that site for 30 years, I've never been to Ground Zero since that day, never seen any of the movies - made for TV or otherwise, never re-visited that day except to listen to other people's stories and tell my own, until now. As of today anyway, I'm glad to have this coin. So, enough of all this. Looking over what I've written, I realize it may seem a little melodramatic to some. I'm sorry if I left that impression.
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Joeyuk's Avatar
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383 Posts
 Posted 05/20/2007  1:02 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Joeyuk to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Your welcome Stephen420. I live in Kearny,NJ which is 15 miles due west of ground zero and has a view of the NY skyline. As an electrician in construction I often work on the Jersey City waterfront which as I'm sure you realize is directly across the Hudson River from ground zero. My birthday also happens to be Sept. 11(1962) so a day which should be happy often makes me sad as I also saw the towers burn etc... and it is no longer a good day for me.
I look at those coins as a piece of history to help us remember what happened and teach those that did not witness it. These I feel fall into the same catagory as shipwreck coins. And as such if shown respect desearv a place in the collections of those who chose to own them.
Joe
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
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23522 Posts
 Posted 05/20/2007  4:58 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
And as such if shown respect desearve a place in the collections of those who chose to own them.


That makes all the difference in the world, Joeyuk. It may also be my less-than-favorable perception of PCGS which colors my thinking on the topic; they're wasting very little of their efforts these days improving their reputation as a responsible and customer-centric business, to say the least.
Rest in Peace
Gary Burke's Avatar
United States
3730 Posts
 Posted 05/21/2007  01:05 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Gary Burke to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
A little off topic, but in 1999 I took our two sons to New York City. It was the first, and, as of now, our only trip to NYC.

I can remember standing on Battery Island and looking at the Twin Towers. I am pleased that we got to see them while they were still standing.
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PSPVinyls's Avatar
United States
150 Posts
 Posted 05/21/2007  6:12 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add PSPVinyls to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Wtc-Ground-Zero-Coins

Is this coin considered a scam or is it worth it. It is supposedly made from the silver that was miraculously recovered from a bank vault found under tons of debris at Ground Zero. Somehow I doubt this, but I want to know everyone's opinion on it. Here is the link on it.
http://www.asseenontv.com/prod-page...orative.html
Notice the website so it's gotta be "genuine"
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