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What Really Happened To The Franklin Mint?

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mmissinglink's Avatar
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 Posted 06/13/2013  10:21 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add mmissinglink to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Just about every family I knew growing up had a Franklin Mint plate or two or some Franklin Mint medals. I have a couple of Franklin Mint medals passed down from my parents....they are actually quite nice looking medals.

So after doing a little reading today, I realized that the Frankilin mint has fallen out of favor by many collectors today. Why the shift in sentiment? I was reading that in 1980, the Franklin Mint was bought for about $225 million! It had been around since 1964. Apparently, the Franklin Mint must have done some excellent sales over time, it must have been in favor by many people.

So why have collectors lost so much interest in their collectible medals? I doubt it's the quality because I can see good quality in the few that I own and when I look at Franklin Mint medal images on line, they appear to be of very good quality. No coin / metals forum that I have checked seems to have an answer.

Is there a simple answer or is there honestly a conspiracy theory answer?

Any real insight into this would be appreciated. Thanks.
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basebal21's Avatar
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 Posted 06/13/2013  10:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add basebal21 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
My best guess would be its a nitch market having non mint medals like that. They should always do fairly well since theres generally always a market for things made of precious medals, but they put out so much stuff that none of it seems special. Individually their peaces appeal to different people like the military families may love the military ones but being a private mint they dont have the following that government mint does. Thats my theory anyway.
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commems's Avatar
United States
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 Posted 06/13/2013  11:41 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add commems to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I agree with you that the quality of its product was not the reason for the demise of The Franklin Mint (FM) in terms of its numismatic offerings. I have a few FM US Bicentennial related medal sets and a couple of non-US proof sets in my collection and believe them all to be very attractive and of the highest quality.

While there is no one reason that The Franklin Mint (FM) fell out of favor with collectors, one significant reason was simply the number of issues that it produced and attempted to market to collectors. The FM was launched at a time in which no US commemorative coins were being authorized by Congress / struck by the US Mint. This left a void for many collectors and a number of companies stepped in and tried to fill the void with commemorative medals. Of course, some were more successful than others.

The Franklin Mint fairly quickly rose to prominence among the private issuers, due in no small part to the fact that it employed former US Mint Chief Engraver Gilroy Roberts as its Chairman and top engraver. The quality and beauty of the engravings of the FM's initial releases set it apart from most all of its competition.

In the beginning, the various issues of the FM were absorbed into the market with good success. Eventually, however, it began to produce so many different series of medals (in various metals) that collectors became overwhelmed by the volume and "collecting fatigue" set in for many. Parallel to this was the declining interest in medals among collectors which slowed sales of new medals and created a "soft" secondary market for previous issues.

Without a viable secondary market, many collectors could not sell their medals for anything near what they paid for them (the initial selling prices of FM medals was not cheap!) and so medals soon developed a reputation as being "junk" among many collectors. To the present day, medals continue to suffer as a second-tier numismatic collectible for most collectors. As a result, many attractive modern medals, even with fairly limited mintages, often sell for little more than melt value on the secondary market.

It also didn't help that the modern series of US commemorative coins was launched in 1982. This filled the commemorative void for many collectors which further reduced the interest in medals.

Hope that at least partially answers your questions.


EDIT: I should mention that FM collectors looking to sell their silver medals did have an opportunity to sell at a profit in Q4 1979 through January 1980 thanks to the rapid run up in silver prices caused by the activities of the Hunt brothers. I've heard many a dealer tell stories of the large number of FM silver sets that they purchased and melted during this time period. The rise in silver prices a couple of years ago also brought out a number of sets that were turned in for melting rather than sale to collectors â€" the secondary market for FM sets continues to be slow.


Collecting history one coin or medal at a time! (c) commems. All rights reserved.
Edited by commems
06/14/2013 10:43 am
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sel_69l's Avatar
Australia
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 Posted 06/14/2013  10:59 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It seems to me that Government owned mints (U.S. Mint, R.C.M., R.A.M., and Royal Mints), may be making the same mistakes that the Franklin mint made.

Perhaps ALL commemorative coins in standard metals should be issued for circulation, and off metal proof strikes of those made for collectors only.
That would prevent some of the more trivial issues for collectors only being issued.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
How about a 100th anniversary commemoration for the foundation of the
Society for the Preservation of Wooden Toilet Seats?
Edited by sel_69l
06/14/2013 11:05 am
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jbuck's Avatar
United States
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 Posted 06/14/2013  1:45 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Hope that at least partially answers your questions.
As always, you provide the answers we seek.
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mmissinglink's Avatar
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 Posted 06/14/2013  7:52 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mmissinglink to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
commems,

That is the most informed explanation on the FM I have read. It also kills my notion of some politically motivated conspiracy against the FM. As for employing Gilroy Roberts, I suppose this makes sense as to the high quality of their medals.

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publius's Avatar
United States
807 Posts
 Posted 07/13/2013  10:58 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add publius to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I recall going through a bunch of coins in an estate, & finding the Franklin Mint "presidents" silver medalet set, with the Gerald Ford medalet still in the envelope with the letter from the director, explaining that Nixon's resignation had resulted in the early release of the next in the series!
They also struck some coinage for national governments in the '60s & '70s, before they slid completely into the production of elaborate kitsch items.
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Sap's Avatar
Australia
16809 Posts
 Posted 07/14/2013  08:18 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Interest in Franklin Mint products has actually increased since their nadir in the 1980s. The FM mintmark is no longer the Mark of Cain that it once was. The Mint effectively no longer exists (after a series of mergers and buy-outs, the company name has been re-booted, but they no longer actually produce coins - they simply on-sell coins produced by other mints), meaning that the series, although large and complicated, can be considered "closed" and therefore able to be "completed" - making it a much more attractive prospect for the collector seeking a new set-completion goal. And, given that a large number of them have been lost, destroyed or melted down by now, actual numbers of medals in existence today are far lower now than they were back when first released.

As has been stated several times in this thread, their actual products were not of inferior quality. However, the packaging they used was certainly inferior. If people followed the little instruction cards on "how to care for your coins" that the FM shipped out with the packaging, they in all probability ruined their coins. Experienced coin collectors receiving Franklin Mint products who eschewed the snazzy FM packaging and simply stuck their coins in 2x2s have fared much better. Given that the vast bulk of FM's customers were not experienced coin collectors, many coins have indeed been unintentionally ruined. While this is sad news for those holding boxfuls of "ruined" coins, this relatively high rate of decay means higher prices for the small minority of un-ruined examples still remaining.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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cc99999's Avatar
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 Posted 07/15/2013  12:52 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add cc99999 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I can add two little bits of information to add to what Commems said:

First, Gilroy Roberts was fired from the Mint as Chief Engraver because he was moonlighting at the Franklin Mint. I have this from good sources within the Mint- it's not common knowledge. The cover story was that he retired.

Second, Coin dealers did not like the Franklin Mint because they felt that it was a direct competitor- this is why, as Commems said, there was no secondary market.

If you read through some old numismatic magazines, specifically from the 1930s and 1940s- you will see that privately issued medals were treated as serious numismatic items. the hobby was a little more misty eyed about collecting and learning- I think as we all grew more cynical after Viet Nam, we started to see darker motives in everything. When the Franklin Mint medals didn't go up in value (outside of bullion value)- there was a sudden turn in favor for them.

But like everything- if something is ignored long enough- it will become scarce... and Franklin Mint pieces once ignored will become coveted by somebody sometime in the future...


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DrDarryl's Avatar
United States
434 Posts
 Posted 10/20/2013  08:58 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DrDarryl to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Many of the Franklin Mint's medals and ingots have been integrated into Hawaiiana numismatics. My last count resulted with 91 items in this niche area of numismatics.

Several are listed in the Hawaiian Money Standard Catalog by Medcalf & Russell published in 1991. Others have been omitted by error. I'm in the process of cataloging each of the 91 in a book/article. This brings to light a new breed of collectors who searches for complete Franklin Mint sets being individually dispersed (that is sold for its metal content) for specific specimens or they intentionally cannibalize a completed set for specific specimens (then reselling the undesired pieces).

Many of the 91 Hawaiiana related items are commanding premium prices as these specialist are becoming aware that cannibalization is time consuming/costly and desired dispersed specimens appear infrequently.

I've identified a few Hawaiiana related Franklin Mint specimens at my blog http://thehawaiiananumismatist.com/
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FadeToBlack's Avatar
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 Posted 10/20/2013  12:21 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add FadeToBlack to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It's still there. They're trying to tear it down to build a development of townhomes, condo's, offices and shops. No more than 20 minutes from where I've lived my whole life.
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Canada
458 Posts
 Posted 12/07/2016  01:04 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bigchip22 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
my wife thinks her dad collection of franklin mint silver is a good investment and doesn't believe me that they are only worth as junk silver.
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Cascade's Avatar
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7390 Posts
 Posted 12/07/2016  08:53 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Cascade to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Well silver is silver so in that respect it plays the spot game in terms of investment but as to premiums there has to be a resurgence of collecting FM sets. It has to become "hip" again so to speak.
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Rest in Peace
moxking's Avatar
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 Posted 12/07/2016  12:03 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add moxking to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Kill the ZOMBIES.
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oriole's Avatar
Canada
5239 Posts
 Posted 12/07/2016  3:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add oriole to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
When I went to the ANA in Philadelphia in 2012, the Franklin mint had a large section. They gave away some delicious chocolates, called, appropriately, "Franklin mints".
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