Counterfeiting And The Secret Service

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Originally posted by national dealer

If you would like to see the Secret Service act more please send your request to:
http://www.ustreas.gov/usss/contact_usss.shtml

Let them know that you want the Secret Service to investigate these counterfeit coins, and to make the process of reporting the items easier. Preferably an online application/reporting process.

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Feedback sent. Good Idea ND- thanks for posting.
Don

I'm kinda surprised that the Secret Service doesn't have a reporting service for counterfeit coins. They do have one for currency, but as far as I know it's only for the currently circulating bills.

Rachel [:p]

I have submitted my comments. It would be great if they would act on these comments. Even if they were only heavily active for a while, even the temporary presence of the SS may deter future counterfeit sales.

The great unwashed masses (newbies, uninformed grandpops, etc) are getting ripped off on a daily basis. We all see the Trade dollars.
There was even a 1906 (YES 1906!!!) Silver Eagle on our favorite
auction site recently. A small but dedicated cadre of numismatists
are trying to report these as fast as the sellers can change IDs.
Add to this the hundreds of local flea markets where these things
are being passed off. ebay has neither the resources, or the cajones
to tackle the problem.

It is my belief that only the Secret Service can do anything to stop this flood. I don`t know how they can do anything about the auctions
originating overseas, but someone here in the US is importing massive
quantities of these things. One or two well publicised busts here
might make these crooks think twice. I agree with ND that the only
way to get the Secret Service to act is to apply pressure. Contact
your congressman as well as the secret service. Ask your local
coin dealers to get involved as well. Maybe Coin World would do well
to do a major investigative report naming names. The ANA bears some
responsibility here as well, as a so-called partner with ebay on the counterfeit issue.
My Two Cents worth.

Bruce

Sorry about the double post.

Answer to your Question, toast. Yes The Secret Service falls under
the Treasury Department, and is responsible for counterfeit currency.
Which includes coinage.

Hello everyone, I have been on vacation and while I was away my PC died. I am now using my wife's computer but most of my files are difficult to retrieve. I didn't realize that my CD copies of my 20000 files copy to her machine without the original file names. So now instead of looking for a file named 1817MoTHcft8R - I have file named 00012. That's OK when you have a few hundred coin pictures but not 12,000 plus mixed with other types of files.

I agree that there is a serious problem with counterfeits posted on ebay, but fortunately in person they are usually underweight off metal copies that are easily spotted. But in the past few months the situation has actually gotten much worse with the introduction of a better class of forged Mexican 8R coins. These also come from Red China and they are being distributed out of Malaysia and NYC. They are selling under $35 at wholesale levels (how low I don't know since I can't get to the original source). These are full weight silver copies that are die struck (using transfer dies so the designs are essentially correct) in an open screw press. To make things worse the edge designs seem to be applied to the planchet pre strike using a two die edging mill like the originals. I now own three coins that use one reverse (shield) die - identical dies right down to the die scratches. The dates are 1777 Mo FF, 1780 Mo FF and 1794 Mo FF. The earlier two are more easily spotted because they are EF, but the 1794 was artificially worn to VG or so and would sell as real to most people.

I have shown these coins to many dealers and collectors - the average collector can not spot the forgery even on the high grade copies - most dealers are wary of them but often can't point out precisely what features are wrong. The VG copy passes as real to most dealers. I fear that the same technology used with common US coins could cause significant problems. One example of this same coin - I was second high bidder on this one - is listed below. I hope I did that right.

https://goccf.com/ebay ebay /a item 3978133402 (Ends Jun-05-05 07:16:11 PDT) - Spanish Mexico Silver 8 Reales CAROLUS III 1777 FF aXF " target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Click here: a target= _blank id= keywords href= https://goccf.com/ebay ebay /a item 3978133402 (Ends Jun-05-05 07:16:11 PDT) - Spanish Mexico Silver 8 Reales CAROLUS III 1777 FF aXF

The coin has a "scratch" which is a raised die defect line between the N in HISPAN and the right Column. There is also an arc shaped defect near the period after the N. These two defects are on every copy I have examined - 12 now. Several coins have been darkened in this particular area to conceal these problems. I have scans of two of my copies which I can share if anyone is interested.

But the real problem is that these counterfeiters have other dies in their collection that have no similar marks. By watching the known distributors, I am listing all coins they post. The dates now number 15 or 20 and they have Mo, So, NG, Potosi and Lima reverses. They may be mixing some originals in the groupings so it is hard to be positive.

I initially spotted this group of people (they change ebay names very frequesntly) when they muled two Ferdin VII dates 1817 and 1819 with Mo TH and Mo FM dies. Since these did not exist - they were easy to spot as fakes.

Here's your link swamperbob:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...m=3978133402

The reality is that most fakes ARE easy to spot, but some (like the ones you describe) are very difficult to spot and are therefore very dangerous, since it takes someone with real in-depth knowledge of the genuine article to spot the fakes. Thanks for the great research!