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Replacement Of People On Our Coins

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papermoney's Avatar
United States
177 Posts
 Posted 08/01/2013  5:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add papermoney to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
We should also contain some silver in our coins - not 90 percent but at least 10 or 15 percent - to give it some value other than "legal tender" status.
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jbuck's Avatar
United States
189340 Posts
 Posted 08/01/2013  5:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I agree with Jbuck about putting lesser known founding fathers such as Paine, Adams, and Franklin on a new series of coins.
For the record, I was not really recommending we do this. I was just pointing out that the guys we have now are but a few examples of great people who have helped this country.

My desire has always been, and always will be, the return of Liberty to the obverse of our coins.
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jbuck's Avatar
United States
189340 Posts
 Posted 08/01/2013  6:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
We should also contain some silver in our coins - not 90 percent but at least 10 or 15 percent - to give it some value other than "legal tender" status.
That will never happen. I believe that 10% silver still exceeds face value, or at least makes it worthwhile to hoard until silver makes another run.
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publius's Avatar
United States
807 Posts
 Posted 08/01/2013  6:26 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add publius to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Tell you what, here's a complete proposal for a new US coinage.


  • Half-dime
    Obverse : Draped bust (as 1798 dollar), "Liberty", date
    Reverse : Heraldic eagle by Mercanti for American Silver Eagle, "United States of America", " Half Dime"
    Composition : Nickel-brass
    Edge : Reeded
    Mass : 3 grams
    Diameter : 18 millimeters


  • Dime
    Same as half-dime, except :
    Reverse : "One Dime"
    Mass : 6 g
    Diameter : 24 mm


  • Double-dime
    Obverse : Standing Liberty by Sinnock for 1926 $2.50 gold, "Liberty", date
    Reverse : Stooping eagle by Jones for 1986 $5 gold, "United States of America", "Two Dimes"
    Composition : Cupronickel
    Edge : Plain
    Mass : 4 g
    Diameter : 20 mm


  • Half-dollar
    Same as double-dime, except :
    Reverse : "Half Dollar"
    Mass : 10 g
    Diameter : 28 mm


  • Dollar
    Obverse : Standing Liberty by MacNeil for quarter-dollar (Type 1 with recessed date), "Liberty", date
    Reverse : Apollo 11 eagle by Gasparro as for Eisenhower & Anthony dollars, "United States of America", "One Dollar"
    Composition : Aluminum-bronze clad over cupronickel, giving a distinct colour contrast on the edge
    Edge : Polygonal, 11 facets
    Mass : 6.5 g
    Diameter : 26 mm (circumscribed circle)


  • Double-dollar
    Same as dollar, except :
    Reverse : "Two Dollars"
    Edge : 15 segments
    Mass : 13 g
    Diameter : 32 mm


  • Half-eagle
    Obverse : Eagle by Weinman for half dollar, "Liberty", date
    Reverse : Variable (see note), "United States of America"
    Composition : 800 Silver clad over nickel-silver (uniform-color edge), net 333 fine
    Edge : Lettered "HALF EAGLE OR FIVE DOLLARS"
    Mass : 12 g (net 4 g silver)
    Diameter : 30 mm


  • Eagle
    Same as half-eagle, except :
    Edge : Lettered "EAGLE OR TEN DOLLARS"
    Mass : 24 g (net 8 g silver)
    Diameter : 36 mm


  • Double-eagle
    Same as half-eagle, except :
    Obverse : Family of eagles by Busiek for American Gold Eagle
    Composition : Net 533 fine
    Edge : Lettered "TWO EAGLES OR TWENTY DOLLARS"
    Mass : 30 g (net 16 g silver)
    Diameter : 40 mm



It will be noted that, for each metal, the designs are uniform & the denomination is proportional to the weight.

The types specified are just my best choices on looking through the Red Book. Obviously, as sculptors came up with good new versions of the basic motifs, they should be changed, but the overall types should remain fixed for long periods, to encourage familiarity.

The exception is the half-eagle, eagle, & double-eagle, intended as circulating commemoratives, available at face value side-by-side with notes (rather than to displace notes, as with the dollar & double-dollar). With one gram of 800 silver per dollar, seigniorage on these would be positive to somewhere above $35/ounce, & even above $38.90 they would likely not be melted very rapidly, because of the problem of refining them. Each would have a different reverse design, depicting whatever seemed suitable at the time, & changed twice a year. The half is made small enough to fit into vending machines, which will typically accept coins up to 32 millimeters.

(I would also favour a uniform series of gold coins, all with the "Libertas Americana" head & flying eagle by Gasparro for the small dollar patterns, but that is another story.)
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sel_69l's Avatar
Australia
21788 Posts
 Posted 08/01/2013  10:13 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
publius:
Your range of suggested denominations makes a lot of common sense to me.
The Double Dollar is getting close to the mass of the current Half, so perhaps it could be bi metallic base metals, and smaller. The Canadians have provided the lead in this regard, with their 'Twonie'.

There are not very many coins around the World in common circulation that are significantly above 10 grammes in mass. For the ones that are, there is a tendency for them to be thicker and smaller in diameter. The 'dumpiness' gives the impression of value.

I guess that the Eagle denomimations, which could also be bi metallic, would be non circulating at this time, due to their diameter and mass. If that is the case, silver could be included in their composition, so long as the value of it is very safely below the the face value of the coin.

I will leave it up your countrymen to comment on the content of the designs suggested.
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nalaberong's Avatar
Canada
2805 Posts
 Posted 08/01/2013  10:38 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add nalaberong to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
There are not very many coins around the World in common circulation that are significantly above 10 grammes in mass. For the ones that are, there is a tendency for them to be thicker and smaller in diameter. The 'dumpiness' gives the impression of value.

One of the logical extremes of this (and one of my favourite coins) is the Hong Kong $10 coin. It circulates alongside a polymer $10 bill - yet it seems the coin is used more. It's thick enough to be easily stood on its edge while at rest and rolls like a champ.
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Doug58s's Avatar
United States
899 Posts
 Posted 08/01/2013  11:28 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Doug58s to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I read a lot of these posts believe we should celebrate the "Idol" the coins represent. It was mentioned in an earlier post - not a single one of these men wanted, would want or envisioned they would be the face of the various symbolism's they are being representative of on our coinage today. I believe most would in fact point to the root of the nation - not draw attention to themselves as the point man on any of the things they hoped to achieve but what all people hoped to achieve in their lifetimes.

Washington did not want to lead our nation - he was asked to lead. Lincoln did not set out to free the slaves - yet lived in a time when he believed they should be freed and did what he had to do to make that happen. I could go on and on... but the bottom line they all believed in the basic premise - America was founded with basic principles that all men (all men meant all people), are created equal and should be allowed to pursue these basic tenants...

Life - Liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

That is why I am for returning to those symbols for our coinage. I think many have lost that/those visions and would focus on the achievements of the individuals placed on our coins - if we simply just rotate a former president or leading statesman on to the surface of a penny or a nickel or dime. America was founded with a vision for all people and when we turn the focus and start singling out 1 person above all others - that ideology is lost.

My proof reading is terrible..hence the edit.
Edited by Doug58s
08/01/2013 11:31 pm
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vermontensium's Avatar
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 Posted 08/01/2013  11:51 pm  Show Profile   Check vermontensium's eBay Listings Check vermontensium's eCrater Listings Bookmark this reply Add vermontensium to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Our framers should remain on U.S. coinage. Just re-design the coins.
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publius's Avatar
United States
807 Posts
 Posted 08/02/2013  12:07 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add publius to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I suggested clad materials for the higher denominations, rather than ring-&-plug bimetallics, because they are more difficult to fake, & last longer in circulation. Ring-&-plug coins suffer from galvanic corrosion when in contact with an electrolyte such as human sweat, but sandwich coins are not affected to any great extent. I have never seen a US, Panamanian, or Thai clad coin which showed the least evidence of inter-layer corrosion. Clad bmetallics with a colour contrast at the edge are visually recognizable as genuine & difficult to imitate, while all clad materials can have the electromagnetic properties "customized" to a great extent.

In the Eurozone, some counterfeits of the 50-cent coin have been seen, but most are of the 1- & 2-Euro pieces. Making the half-dollar slightly heavier, & of cupronickel instead of a more-easily-imitated brass composition, seems a sufficient security. I tend to think that the Euro coins are just a little too small & light to give the desired impression of stability & substance that one wants in a currency.

The current Australian 50-cent coin, which seemed to me to circulate very widely when I visited Melbourne a couple of years back, is about the size of my proposed double-dollar denomination (actually noticeably heavier, at over 15 g). This I regard as about the largest size for a widely-circulating coin, so I give it to the largest base-metal circulating coin.

The half-eagle, which I would expect to circulate to some extent (less than the double-dollar, considerably more than the eagle & double-eagle), although smaller than the double-dollar, has its silver content to give it the feeling of "substance" commensurate with its value. I chose 800 fine for the silver cladding because my observations of Canadian coins, as well as the silver-clad US coinage with its 800-fine surfaces, lead me to believe that this alloy combines visual appeal with durability to a maximum for the various silver compositions.

Notice that in all my proposed denominations, there is an upward trend in size with value : the double-dime (bottom of the cupronickel pair) is bigger than the half-dime (bottom of the nickel-brass pair), the dollar (bottom of the polygonal clad pair) is bigger than the double-dime, & the half-eagle (bottom of the silver-clad) is bigger than the dollar. Furthermore, the bottom member of each pair is bigger than the top member of the last-but-one, ie, the dollar is bigger than the dime, & the half-eagle than the half-dollar. If you wanted to represent it like a rhyme-scheme in poetry, it would be ABACBDCDD (lumping in the double-eagle with the eagle & its half, despite the difference in the details of their silver-clad compositions).
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papermoney's Avatar
United States
177 Posts
 Posted 08/02/2013  08:34 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add papermoney to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
publuis, I love your ideas on who we should put on the new coinage.
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Isos's Avatar
United States
62 Posts
 Posted 08/02/2013  10:04 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Isos to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I would love to see American ideals represented. A return of Liberty, but perhaps also personified figures of industry, justice, etc. I don't think it's doing the framers any injustice to replace them after so long with the ideals they championed. Also, some memorial of them could remain on the reverse.

Now here's a funny (and bad) idea. What if the current president were always featured (sort of like the reigning british monarch)? Suddenly, coinage would become a very partisan issue. I can picture some people not taking certain coins as change because of their feelings about one president or another. I would love to see the fallout from that one!
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jbuck's Avatar
United States
189340 Posts
 Posted 08/02/2013  1:39 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Our framers should remain on U.S. coinage. Just re-design the coins.
Two problems though. First, as I mentioned before, not all of the framers are represented. Second, not all of those who appear on coins are framers.

Bring back Liberty, for the win.


Quote:
Now here's a funny (and bad) idea. What if the current president were always featured (sort of like the reigning british monarch)? Suddenly, coinage would become a very partisan issue. I can picture some people not taking certain coins as change because of their feelings about one president or another. I would love to see the fallout from that one!
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Doug58s's Avatar
United States
899 Posts
 Posted 08/02/2013  3:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Doug58s to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I can see the stories now on the current president coins... Some of the gossip rags are ripping Drew Brees for leaving a $3 tip on a $75 order. Next we will have - he left me 3 measley Hillary Clinton's!
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Libertad's Avatar
Canada
3692 Posts
 Posted 08/02/2013  7:37 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Libertad to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I doubt many Americans even know who's on the dime anyways. The main argument against changing it (lol) is that it will cause confusion in the marketplace. I think that if the designs stay the same but only slightly change the face it would fly under the radar. Like if the face structure was similar and facing the same way and then had their name underneath and all the usual signs of money in the US (E Pluribus Unum, Liberty, The United States of America).
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nalaberong's Avatar
Canada
2805 Posts
 Posted 08/03/2013  12:48 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add nalaberong to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I doubt many Americans even know who's on the dime anyways.

Joseph Stalin, of course...!
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