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Replies: 33 / Views: 3,017 |
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Pillar Of The Community
3147 Posts |
hunter20ga I could NOT disagree with you more. Stocks and the stock market is high risk and if it wasn't for the 401K farce in America the stock market probably would have crashed twice in the last 7 years. Stocks are set up for the rich, to benefit the rich, and only those who with tremendous connections on the inside will ever walk away from such a gamble with a smile on their face. Of course this is not to mention those who walk away every day with all the money that is reported lost, such as the millions lost in 401K's a few short years back, as in the end someone MUST have our money in their pocket. It just doesn't disappear. I went through two years trying to find out how much our 401K plan administrator was charging the employees of the company I worked for at the time. I (we) never did get an answer and I see today that government is finally (again) looking into 401k corruption by plan adminisrators who, I might add, take their cut up front, before investing for plan members and then have NO legal requirements to report those fees on their quarterly reports to plan members. So, in the end, the average American worker could be screwed before his or her money is actually invested. Some plan administrators, we now find, are charging 5% to 8% or more which means your weekly deposits must turn that amount of profit for you to ever break even let alone make a profit. There is a book available called the 401K HOAX IN AMERICA if you can find it. Needless to say most financial planners DON'T want you to read it. I will continue to take my chances with collectable coins from all over the world, gold and silver. Regardless of how things may turn out I do like the idea that win, lose or draw I did it all myself. And I would also repeat one of the most famous quotes I ever heard on TV a few years back when I heard a financial planner warning Americans about continued stock investments and he stated "I must ask the American investors just how long can you sell a worthless piece of paper for a profit, over a period of years before someone MUST lose?" I don't see precious metals or collectable coins as worthless.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1247 Posts |
Crystalk I was listening to some "news" on the radio last night and they were talking about how outraged Americans are about the price of gasoline. Then they rolled out some options trader who said the problem with Americans is we take the wrong view about gas prices. Instead of being hacked off about high prices we should be happy. Because strong gas prices indicate a strong economy which is good for the stock market. Got that? When you pull up to gas pump make sure you get out and and Yell: "Exxon-Mobile I love you!!!!"
If you listen to these commentaries they can rationalize anything and they do. If the stock market goes down it's because Benny didn't lower the interest rates this week. If it goes up, it's because Benny didn't need to lower the interest this week, the economy is doing just fine: Only 1.2% inflation if you exclude food, gas, cloths housing and anything else you actually need to stay alive. So c'mon America! Invest, invest, invest!
In all fairness though investing in coins isn't really a level playing field either. No one is ever going to convince me that Joe Collector gets the same grading treatment submitting five coins as a big dealer submitting a 1,000. Still, the odds probably are better that the small guy can do better away from wallstreet no matter what he invests in. I've never trusted that place, never invested a dime. Even as people I knew were shaking their heads in pity. I bet most of them are really in deep now. It's not going to last. I'm not aware of even one historic bubble that didn't burst.
The longer things continue the same way, the more people will under value change. There's going to be an awful lot of stunned mullets in this country some day.
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Pillar Of The Community
3147 Posts |
Longnine it is human nature for most folks to follow instead of leading. It is not that people are lazy it is just easier for most, who are concentrating on work, family and making ends meet to let someone else do their thinking for them. Science knows this, government knows this and religion knows this! We see it every day of our lives and I for one feel much better making my own rights and wrongs and in the end I can blame no one except my self. Putting money into a 401K was a huge mistake, which I halted after a few short years, and even if I have to work right up to the day I die I can at least say "I did it my way"! I take great pride in that. Any industry that screams shortage and reports billions in profits each year is nothing more than a comon thief circumventing the laws with the help of the rich and Congress. And, if the truth was known, probably 80% or more of our elected members of Congress hold gas and oil futures and or stocks so there is NO way anything will ever be done anywhere in the world. The middle class is dying and just not here! So with all of this in mind I still believe, for the little guy, precious metals (gold and silver) and collectable coins will always be a safe place to put those extra funds. They don't exist on paper now do they? There are other items that would also fare well should hard times ever befall this country but this is the wrong thread to go into that. Just keep in mind what coins have done in the last few years and be thankful of all those oldies you/we have stashed away. After all they are not minting them any longer!
Edited by crystalk64 06/09/2007 9:32 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1173 Posts |
Fine, Crystalk64, have it your way. If you want to believe that stocks are "worthless pieces of paper" that is your choice. I didn't say anything about 401k's or financial planners, etc. That was your little rant. I simply said that stocks tend to be much more liquid than gold and silver bullion. And I stick by that. I also said that a solid stock portfolio tends to outperform bullion, and I stand by that, too. If I want to buy or sell bullion, I have two places in town...and both tie their prices to the "current price" and take a cut (buy at a discount, sell at a premium). If I want to sell $10,000 worth of gold, I'll lose a hefty percent. If I want to sell $10,000 worth of stock, through my online broker, it costs me a whopping $9.99 and I can set the price I'm willing to take. Same when I buy. Why so cheap? Because in the end, there are many buyers and sellers, there is a great degree of liquidity, and there is competition. If the economy collapses and the world comes to an end, all that stock is worthless, I suppose, but so, too, will your collectible coins (especially) and bullion (maybe to a lesser degree?). Food will be the medium of exchange...not gold and diamonds. That beautiful MS-65 1877 Indian Head cent won't be worth squat. A case of Spam will be worth a lot more. So...good luck with your investments.
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Pillar Of The Community
3147 Posts |
hunter20ga there will be many other "collectables" we all will wish we had should a collapse occur. One of them would be part of your forum name! Guns, ammo, cigarettes, food and of course, booze! Quite honestly I don't want to ever see such a time come but should it another valuable asset would be the ability and knowledge to live off the land. That would be priceless. I in no way intended to offend you but wanted to offer another side and another opinion voiced frequently here on this forum. That is what makes us (me/you) and all the others so valuable here. Very diverse yet much in common. For the most part we all seek the same things but take different roads getting there. I try to look at all sides of all issues but have experience in some that were neither pleasant nor rewarding. While I am well aware where you stand, and I do respect that, it is important, at least to me, that all new comers who may read our comments get to see another view so they too can make up their minds. Our whole life is a gamble, from the time we get up until we retire at night, and people who have the ability to discuss issues at length openly and honestly, especially on a public forum like this are doing much more than they may realize. If only one individual reads these posts and uses any knowledge gained to make a decision concerning his coin collection or investing his money in any way then my friend we have done well! We are a very diverse group with tons of opinions and having a place to share them makes us all better people. Thank you for your opinion and your professionalism as that is what we are all here for. Be a pretty darn boring world if we were all alike! And for what it is worth, I too favor the 20 guage over the 12 ga. and was an outdoors writer for many years. Don't get out much as I did in my younger years but still make the effort to stay in touch with world of the outdoorsman. I have much yet to pass onto a little guy as no one told me to quit having children! Oldest is going on 34 and my youngest is 5! The little one needs to learn and needs to see the Rockies!!! (Based on my experiences that Dad wants to share)
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1173 Posts |
Sorry, Crystalk64...kind of crabby this morning, so I apologize for the tone of my last post. You are right, of course, that the value of this forum and the internet in general, is the diveristy of opinions and the freedom to (respectfully) present them.
Yes...if the SHTF for real, then a couple of guns and ammo may well prove to have been a wise investment. I'm not one to worry much about the collapse of civilization, but it never hurts to be prepared for natural disaster. Look at those poor folks in New Orleans following the hurricane and left to their own devices to protect their property and (more importantly) their lives. And to top it off, the remaining police were going around confiscating firearms from the law abiding!
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Valued Member
United States
169 Posts |
As a bullion, I would say silver is probably not a good short term investment. Maybe over a decade or so it will prove to be a good investment, but silver has been at it's all time high for a couple of years now, I think. It's probably more likely to go down in the next few years, than up, barring any huge national or world crisis. As far as silver coins are concerned, I think it depends entirely upon the series. Common low grade silver coins are probably not a good investment.
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Pillar Of The Community
3147 Posts |
Basically I prefer high grade coins but, none the less, silver is silver and I do know folks who buy in any grade if the price is right. Guess it is much harder to get attached to low grade coins as a collectable but they still hold that precious metal value. We are very fortunate, at least in this hobby, to have a wide spectrum of opportunities available that will fit into almost any budget. It takes us all to keep EVERY area of the hobby strong for the next generation of collectors that are coming on board.
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Valued Member
United States
487 Posts |
Interesting subject!! Here are my thoughts. First if you work for a company that offers a 401K with a match either 50 cents on the dollar or dollar for dollar you should invest the max. Even if you cash it all out as soon as you are vested and pay the taxes and penalties you will be way ahead. If you leave a company you have the choice of rolling it over into a new 401K or an IRA. Roll it over to an IRA and you now have control of your money. You can invest it in stocks, gold, land, rental properties, CD's. Someone stated that silver is at an all time high? It would need to go up over 300% to reach a none inflation high and over 1000% to reach an inflation adjusted all time high. Silver is a consumable, we are using over 100,000,000 ounces more each year than is being mined and there is a limited supply. The run up in silver price aver the last 2 years could very well be just the tip of the iceberg . If things collapse there are 3 things you will always be able to trade for a loaf of bread, gold, silver and 22 rifle shells. Best investment, Raw land (if you can get it where the taxes are low).
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1247 Posts |
If an economic collapse goes on long enough or is severe enough--(as I believe it will be) won't the next step be feudal societies? In fact, don't we see the beginnings of that right now with all these gang problems?
We may come to find out that the most valuable commodity is a bottle of drinking water. Gold, silver and bullets may or may not be useful. If there is little or no law and order there will be little or no regard for human life. People may not get their change back from their gold Eagle. They may get a couple a 9mm's in the chest instead.
The most useful skill may end up to be keeping a very low profile and scavenging.
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Pillar Of The Community
3147 Posts |
The ability to live off the land would be a huge commodity along with the ability to disappear, so to speak! Guess we all will have to get together, bury our gold and silver, and ride it out. All we need to do now is come up with a central location, even though I prefer the mountains out west, but feel the woods nearby may be more appropriate under the circumstances. So to avoid traveling with all your coin collection just go ahead and forward it now to my address. It will be well taken care of until you get here!!! After all, what are friends for?
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1247 Posts |
I live a few blocks from the wrong side of the railroad tracks. I can lug my gold and platinum bricks down there on a pallet jack and bury them there. The steel tracks will mask them from the metal detectors.  Unless they dig the tracks up and sell them to China.
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Valued Member
Poland
55 Posts |
I ahve some silver coins and I seee that their value incre ASE
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1203 Posts |
Longnine you have just spoken about what I believe to be an even better buy than silver or gold, and that is land/property etc. What ever you want to call it. They aren't making any more of it and sooner or later it will be the only thing standing between you and eternity. In all the years of collecting and buying and selling, I hve never lost money on land. Now if that land also happens to have running water and rich mineral deposits,all the better. Grow some grass, feed some cows (or buffalo) and sit back and enjoy life. Oh yes, post it as private property and keep the rifle loaded. A sure formula to success.
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Valued Member
Ireland
498 Posts |
Others have plenty of resources others dont,they can have medicine even their is pest like west nile or SARS or bird flu that will go to their haven much better off than others.
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Replies: 33 / Views: 3,017 |