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US Sanctions And Paper Money

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New Member

United States
3 Posts
 Posted 09/10/2013  11:48 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add jjttjj to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
My paypal account was recently temporarily suspended for selling a North Korean banknote. I've always been interested in buying and selling the paper money of controversial countries that have been in the news and never realized it might be illegal.

Now, I have banknotes from Syria, Iran and Libya I'd like to attempt to sell. I got all of these through third party dealers not located in the countries the banknotes are from (I think all of them were actually from the US).

The message paypal sent me contained the following:


Quote:
PayPal's Compliance Department has reviewed your account and identified
activity that may be in violation of United States regulations administered
by the Department of the Treasury's Office of Foreign Assets Control
(OFAC).


Which led me to discover this page:
http://www.treasury.gov/resource-ce...rograms.aspx

Unfortunately I'm not a lawyer though and even the overviews on this page are not particularly clear to me if I'm allowed to sell the banknotes. For example, the one on syria:

http://www.treasury.gov/resource-ce...ts/syria.pdf



Quote:
Current Syria sanctions (1) block the property and interests in property of the Government of Syria pursuant to E.O.
13582, (2) block the property and interests in property of persons listed in an Annex to, or that are determined by the
Secretary of the Treasury in consultation with the Secretary of State, to meet the criteria described in, E.O. 13338,
E.O. 13399, E.O. 13460, E.O. 13572, E.O. 13573, E.O. 13582, or E.O. 13606, (3) prohibit transactions or dealings
with foreign persons that are determined by the Secretary of the Treasury, in consultation with the Secretary of State,
to meet the criteria described in E.O. 13608, and (4) prohibit certain transactions with respect to Syria pursuant to
E.O. 13582.
Under E.O. 13582, all property and interests in property of the Government of Syria, which includes its agencies,
instrumentalities, and controlled entities, which are in the United States or within the possession or control of U.S.
persons, are blocked.
E.O. 13582 also prohibits the following:
• New investment in Syria by a U.S. person, wherever located;
• The direct or indirect exportation, reexportation, sale, or supply of any services to Syria from the United
States or by a U.S. person, wherever located;
• The importation into the United States of petroleum or petroleum products of Syrian origin;
• Any transaction or dealing by a U.S. person, wherever located, in or related to petroleum or petroleum
products of Syrian origin; and
• Any approval, financing, facilitation, or guarantee by a U.S. person, wherever located, of a transaction
by a foreign person where the transaction by that foreign person would be prohibited if performed by a
U.S. person or within the United States.


Does that mean I can sell the banknotes or not?

Anyone have experience with selling this stuff? I just like to sell cool things in the news, but if it means I need a lawyer to sell a piece of paper for $5 I guess I should just totally avoid having anything to do with it. But on the other hand these things do show up on ebay relatively frequently. Any advice?
Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
837 Posts
 Posted 09/10/2013  12:45 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DaytR to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Interesting stuff ! Syrian banknotes are technically property of that government so part (1) of the current Syrian sanctions above can be used against you should you sell the notes ...... thats my 2 cents although I should state I am not a lawyer .....
Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
837 Posts
 Posted 09/10/2013  12:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DaytR to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
By the way to CCF !
New Member
United States
3 Posts
 Posted 09/10/2013  1:21 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jjttjj to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for the welcome, and thanks for your input!
Pillar of the Community
fioti's Avatar
United States
4212 Posts
 Posted 09/10/2013  1:45 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add fioti to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Whodda guessed? Aint that a Lassie?
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Sap's Avatar
Australia
16829 Posts
 Posted 09/10/2013  9:24 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It should at this point perhaps be pointed out that there is often a wide disparity between "what is illegal to sell" and "what ebay prohibits you from selling". ebay is a law unto itself, as far as it's own policies on prohibited items are concerned.

My interpretation of the actual law: yes, unless you're a secret agent for the Bank of Syria, it is perfectly legal for you to sell Syrian banknotes. The aim and purpose of the law is to ensure the Syrian government obtains no funds from American citizens and companies. A Syrian banknote already in the possession of an American citizen has already benefited the regime, way back when it was last exchanged for American dollars; your selling it to another American cannot possibly benefit them further, except in rather intangible and vague ways such as "improving the demand and visibility of Syrian collectables".

ebay, however, has this policy in place. Folks have complained about it before; Here's someone who got their Iranian coins and banknotes blocked.

The ironic thing is, ebay's zealousness even blocks the sale of items that date back to before the regimes which the American government hate came to power. Thus, pre-1959 Cuban coins and pre-1979 coins from Iran are also liable to being blocked, even though one would think the American government would very much like to see those particular regimes restored to power.

The other annoying thing about this policy is that it's implemented worldwide. I can't sell Syrian banknotes or North Korean coins on ebay Australia, either, even though my government has no such sanctions in place.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
Pillar of the Community
augsburger's Avatar
Germany
1063 Posts
 Posted 09/21/2013  12:11 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add augsburger to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It's ridiculous. How much money would the North Korean govt make from selling coins anyway? It can't be much, not enough to make an impact on anything.
New Member
United States
3 Posts
 Posted 09/21/2013  8:53 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jjttjj to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yeah, at this level it seems to be more out of spite than anything reasonable.

Btw, great info Sap!
Pillar of the Community
Libertad's Avatar
Canada
3692 Posts
 Posted 10/21/2013  09:30 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Libertad to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Play it safe. Any law can be turned against you. All you need is a good lawyer.
Valued Member
SPQR's Avatar
United States
327 Posts
 Posted 10/24/2013  1:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SPQR to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I know ebay comes down hard on Cuban Pesos, especially those post 1959. I've gotten a few from a lady in Italy and they are neat, interesting pieces.
Pillar of the Community
persistnt's Avatar
Canada
726 Posts
 Posted 11/01/2013  5:25 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add persistnt to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
One point also is that some can sell the ...say north korean notes and everything works fine............The next guy on.-bay is blocked...not a perfect situation.. my guess is that they didn't know the first guy was selling.......sometimes yah get caught sometimes no..........
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