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Canon Or Nikon? (Edit: Or Maybe Om With A Modern Body?)

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BStrauss3's Avatar
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 Posted 09/13/2013  7:25 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add BStrauss3 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
My wife has experience with Canon film, but hasn't made the jump to DSLR. I had Olympus OM gear and have an OM macro lens [but backed the wrong pony in that race][yes I know about leitax]. We both used Canon P&S quite happily, although lately I've used a Nikon S9100 P&S (27x optical zoom) that I happened on a pre-release sale at Costco as my walk-around/vacation/white board @ work camera). She-who-must-be-obeyed bought the Nikon waterproof AWE100 and loves it as her P&S... So there's no compelling family history (gramps f1.1 Zeiss lens or whatever).

As a basic DSLR I honestly think you can't go wrong either way - both Canon and Nikon make lovely cameras that will more than meet my needs for many years to come.

BUT - If I'm going to invest the inheritance in a macro photo setup, (and personal preferences aside - don't want to start an r-war, naturally) is there any compelling reason from a coin macro photo purpose to pick one or the other.

Based on what I've read, I'm stumped. Both systems have mid-telephoto (90mm or 100mm) lenses with good reviews and there are some nice lenses that go both ways, e.g. the Tamron SP90. Both systems have all the accessories compatible with their system. Both have a variety of bodies that cover various price points with similar features.

So what is the compelling reason? Only one does live preview for example or ?

TIA!
-----Burton


-----Burton
50+ year / Life / Emeritus ANA member (joined 12/1/1973)
Life member: Numismatics International, CONECA
Member: TNA, FtWCC, NETCC, EveryCountry (online) coin club
Owned by three cats and a wife of 40+ years (joined 1983)

Author: 3rd Edition of the Sample Slabs book, https://www.sampleslabs.info/
Edited by BStrauss3
09/14/2013 5:12 pm
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
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 Posted 09/13/2013  8:38 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Within the strict confines of static, studio macro photography, there are two compelling reasons to choose Canon over Nikon. I will enumerate those below, but in the interest of fairness it has to be admitted that Nikon - as well as other bodies which include the autofocus motor in the body rather than the lens - are probably the better choice for most other aspects of photography; Canon does not.

1) Canon employs an electronic first shutter, whereas the competition uses mechanical first shutters. You seem to have a grounding in photographic technique, so I can explain it appropriately: Shutter actuation is no longer the aperture snapping open and then closed in the lens. It is (in digital photography) in the form of two physical curtains; one to open the access to the sensor, one to close it. Canon does not use a physical first curtain, but a "virtual" one in the sense the the first curtain is created by turning the sensor on rather than moving something across it. Only the second curtain is physical on a Canon camera.

This advantage has been proven, on the pages of this forum, by rmpsrpms, who had the interest and resources to compare the two brands in an otherwise-sterile and controlled environment in which the camera bodies were the only variable. The record of his experiment exists in CCF archives. He proved that the Canon electronic first curtain provides a noticeable benefit in overall sharpness to the final image.

It must be said, however, that this improvement isn't discernible in any full-face image of any coin presented for online viewing. It has only benefit in 100% crops of details which expose the camera's minutest limitations, and it only matters when you're using the very best and most bespoke lenses to acquire the images.

Me? If I'm looking to insure my coins - to protect and identify them into the future so as to make it as near-impossible for an insurance company to wiggle out of liability by way of introducing some semblance of doubt as to the value of what's insured - yeah, I'm using a Canon and a state-of-the-art lens to remove that doubt.

2) Canon, by rule, includes with all of their dSLR's a software suite which packs a remote-control tethering application allowing you to control the entire photographic process from the mouse/keyboard. This is (and I speak from personal experience) a night-and-day advantage over any other method of taking pictures of coins. Knowing what I do now, it's a dealbreaker keeping me from considering any other brand of camera. You set the camera and lens up once - make sure it's perpendicular to the coin - and never touch the camera again whether you shoot one image or a thousand, regardless of variance in aperture, ISO or exposure.

Nikon charges you $$$ for that software, even if you just spent $8000 on a D3X. Really?

Nobody else even has such software.

That's the view from my porch.
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 Posted 09/13/2013  10:42 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add rmpsrpms to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
100% agree with SD's analysis but I will add some more to it...

I have a D7000, and used it for coins for about 2 years before getting a Canon T2i. I have not used the D7000 for coins since getting the T2i, except for comparison shots, and when I did these it was much more difficult to use the D7000 due to the software differences. Not only did I have to buy (for almost $200 IIRC) the Nikon CCP2 software, but it is not as friendly to use as the free EOS Utility that comes with Canon. You may ask why I bought Nikon in the first place. The reason is the D7000 offered an upgrade to my D5000, and I was hoping it would fix the blurriness I saw in coin photos. It did not. But what it did for me is allow all my older manual focus, AF, and newer AFS lenses to be used for general walking around shoots. I've probably taken more photos with the D7000 at the beach than I have coin shots with my T2i, so I find the D7000 an excellent overall camera, just not for coins. The blurriness I saw was completely fixed when I bought the T2i, for reasons SD described. That said, I only decided to buy the T2i after I proved it was the Nikon's "shutter shake" that was causing my problem. I did this through a delayed lighting technique that eliminated the first 1sec of the exposure, allowing the camera to stabilize before the light came on. This simulated the expected performance of the Canon EFSC functionality, and proved that the Nikon D7000 was indeed capable of excellent quality images with careful lighting control. But that level of control is difficult to do with coins, which are best lit with continuous lighting. So I bought the T2i, and have never looked back. I do occasionally look forward to buying a Canon FF camera with EFSC, but my budget so far has not supported that move...Ray
Contact me for photographic equipment or visit my home page at:
http://macrocoins.com
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
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 Posted 09/14/2013  05:56 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Wait until Canon's answer to the Nikon D600, Ray. There's a reason why they're delaying it....it's gonna blow that puppy clean out of the water. Figure a 28MP(ish) sensor of the same pixel density as their current APS-C offerings, with a next-gen processor which compensates for the extra density at that size. For $2000.
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BStrauss3's Avatar
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 Posted 09/14/2013  09:45 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BStrauss3 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Wow, that really WOULD blow the inheritance. I was thinking more:


  • Canon EOS Rebel T3i DSLR (or similar)

  • Macro Lens

  • Canon EF 100mm f/2.8 USM Macro Auto Focus

  • or
  • Tamron SP 90mm f/2.8 Di 1:1 AF Macro Auto Focus Lens for Canon

  • Canon MR-14EX Macro Ring Lite



Plus a home-made copystand (I have at least THAT much woodworking skills and a table saw) and a couple of Adorama accessories:


  • Flashpoint Budget Macro Focusing Rail Set

  • Pro Optic Auto Extension Tube Set for Canon EOS


-----Burton
50+ year / Life / Emeritus ANA member (joined 12/1/1973)
Life member: Numismatics International, CONECA
Member: TNA, FtWCC, NETCC, EveryCountry (online) coin club
Owned by three cats and a wife of 40+ years (joined 1983)

Author: 3rd Edition of the Sample Slabs book, https://www.sampleslabs.info/
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kanga's Avatar
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 Posted 09/14/2013  09:46 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add kanga to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Both brands have models that will far exceed the requirements of numismatic photography.
It's the accessories that more often make the difference.
Although a macro lens (Nikon calls them "micro") is a huge help.

I use a Nikon D90 with a Nikkor 60mm micro lens.
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 Posted 09/14/2013  3:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Both brands have models that will far exceed the requirements of numismatic photography.


This is the honest truth. We're talking about eking out the last few percentage points here, not a dealbreaker quality difference between the two brands.

Have a look at Ray's post over in the "Best camera for $400" thread, BStrauss3. Not that you'd go used, but following Rays advice you could have the whole rig including microscopic capability for less than the price of the macro lenses you listed alone. Substituting a good, new body will only increase the ultimate quality via giving you even larger images to start with.
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BStrauss3's Avatar
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 Posted 09/14/2013  5:10 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BStrauss3 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Have a look at Ray's post over in the "Best camera for $400" thread, BStrauss3. Not that you'd go used, but following Rays advice ...


That post has me looking at my old film macro setup with a new eye. I got sucked down the rabbit hole of "you can't use the OM stuff [automatically] with newer mounts".

But it looks like I can - if I'm willing to give up the automation. I can get an EOS --> OM adaptor for $16 shipped, e.g.
Fotodiox Lens Mount Adapter, Olympus OM Zuiko Lens to Canon EOS Camera (Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/Fotodiox-Adap...p/B001G4NBNC)

With that, everything I already own looks like it would work? And I would still have the live preview, off camera shooting, 1st shutter of the Canon? I give up the autofocus, but that was pretty much a given anyway.

D'oh - and that leaves the inheritance for coin purchases... VF-->XF here I come baby...

Because I have some nice stuff in the OM mount - the bellows (and somewhere in the back of the closet a copy stand), the auto macro tube and two lenses

* Spirotone Macrotel 150mm
* Zuiko Auto-1:1 80mm macro


Will it work?

-----Burton
50+ year / Life / Emeritus ANA member (joined 12/1/1973)
Life member: Numismatics International, CONECA
Member: TNA, FtWCC, NETCC, EveryCountry (online) coin club
Owned by three cats and a wife of 40+ years (joined 1983)

Author: 3rd Edition of the Sample Slabs book, https://www.sampleslabs.info/
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
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 Posted 09/14/2013  5:21 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
With that, everything I already own looks like it would work? And I would still have the live preview, off camera shooting, 1st shutter of the Canon? I give up the autofocus, but that was pretty much a given anyway.


Yes, you'll have all that. I've found that lenses which don't transmit aperture data to the camera will need you to artificially lighten the image to see effectively for focus - I just arbitrarily up the ISO by two steps to focus, and click it back down to snap the image.

Edit: this is referring to remote shooting, on the computer monitor.
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