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My Cheap Point And Shoot Setup

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wheatiefan's Avatar
United States
507 Posts
 Posted 09/02/2013  12:59 am Show Profile   Check wheatiefan's eBay Listings Bookmark this topic Add wheatiefan to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Hi all,

I thought I would share my cheap setup so others can see.
I have a 10+ year old olympus point and shoot camera. I can't follow most of the recommendations on this forum, like setting ISO, aperture, etc. because the camera doesn't have those capabilities.

Because I collect world coins there are some differences vs. USA collectors. For example, some coins are made from cruddy metals (like zinc, aluminum, or iron), some coins have holes, some coins are very tiny, etc. These are added variables you don't have to consider if you're just taking pictures of your $20 St. Gaudens collection. :)

My goal is to have a website showing off my collection. In pursuit of this goal, I have taken 100s-1000s of pictures. I have settled into a routine I am comfortable with.
My method is kind of assembly line, so there isn't much change in setup from coin to coin. This is true also for post-processing where I just crop and maybe adjust levels.

I previously posted some experiments when I was first starting.

Here is a stand I made out of scrap plywood.
There is a threaded rod that elevates the coin from the background. There is a plastic insert so there isn't coin-on-metal contact. I don't advocate using a threaded rod, or elevating the coin 4 inches, it's just what I had available. I've seen others use a plastic dime tube or a golf tee. You could even use a stack of coins.
My-Cheap-Point-And-Shoot-Setup

The camera is secured with some easily obtainable hardware. By cinching down the wingnut the camera is held close to the crossbar.
My-Cheap-Point-And-Shoot-Setup
My-Cheap-Point-And-Shoot-Setup

There are two jansjo lights. They are at roughly 11:00 and 1:00 positions, basically touching the camera so they shine as close to straight down as possible.
The lens of the camera is about 6-8 inches from the coin. I zoom in 95-100% to make the coin as large as possible.
My-Cheap-Point-And-Shoot-Setup
My-Cheap-Point-And-Shoot-Setup

I spent about $4 on black felt and it was one of the best things I've done. I used to use black plastic and had to spend a lot of time adjusting the dark gray background. Now my pictures have a black background straight off the camera. Two pieces are laid down under the coin and the entire setup is shrouded.
By the time I take pictures, all of the lights in the room are off.
My-Cheap-Point-And-Shoot-Setup
My-Cheap-Point-And-Shoot-Setup

Here are images of a bronze coin. The first pic shows straight-off-the-camera and the second shows the final product after clicking a few buttons. (Both have been reduced in file size to share online)
My-Cheap-Point-And-Shoot-Setup

Here is my homemade diffuser. I think of it as a milkjug, but it is actually a distilled water jug. The back has been cut out to access the coin. The camera shoots straight through the opening in the top. I only use diffusion for shiny or reflective coins, like those made from stainless steel.
My-Cheap-Point-And-Shoot-Setup
My-Cheap-Point-And-Shoot-Setup

Here are images of a steel coin. The first is taken as usual, the second is taken with the milkjug diffuser.
My-Cheap-Point-And-Shoot-Setup

In the future I will probably get a Canon camera for the live-tethering option. If you had told me years ago I would spend 100s of dollars on a camera just to take pictures of coins I would have thought you were nuts. But I think it's the eventual next step.
I would also like to experiment with axial lighting.

I just thought I'd share because I enjoy reading everyone's techniques. I'm receptive to any constructive criticism. I have learned a lot from this subforum and thank everyone for the tips and discussion.

I also wanted to share because people need to know that even if they have a 10 year old point and shoot and a few dollars, they can still obtain acceptable images.

-wheatiefan
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Bababooey's Avatar
United States
374 Posts
 Posted 09/02/2013  03:02 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bababooey to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Really nice photos and neat set up!
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bpoc1's Avatar
United States
4078 Posts
 Posted 09/02/2013  05:51 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bpoc1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Very informative and unique. Thank you Wheatiefan!
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Ham1947's Avatar
United States
1298 Posts
 Posted 09/02/2013  09:45 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ham1947 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Very nice photos. Enjoyed seeing and reading about your setup. Thanks for sharing.
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noahs-numismatics's Avatar
Canada
3167 Posts
 Posted 09/02/2013  09:58 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add noahs-numismatics to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Awesome quality pictures! Great setup!
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bill069's Avatar
United States
608 Posts
 Posted 09/02/2013  11:02 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bill069 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
That is a great DIY set-up and I will give it a try!
Thanks for sharing your information.
Edited by bill069
09/02/2013 11:05 am
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JJHFL's Avatar
United States
395 Posts
 Posted 09/02/2013  11:17 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JJHFL to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have to admit I chuckled a bit when I saw the Milk Jug Diffuser :) But awesome results

EDIT: One suggestion/upgrade (unless its covered and I just cant see it), maybe a felt or teflon cover for the area of the rod the coin rests on. Like one of those chair leg "sliders". Prevent an accidental scratch to the coin.
Edited by JJHFL
09/02/2013 11:24 am
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
United States
23522 Posts
 Posted 09/02/2013  11:42 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
EDIT: One suggestion/upgrade (unless its covered and I just cant see it), maybe a felt or teflon cover for the area of the rod the coin rests on. Like one of those chair leg "sliders". Prevent an accidental scratch to the coin.


Felt or nylon stoppers for cabinet closure work well here. Me, I'd throw a nut onto that bolt to make for a more stable platform. Either way, an excellent effort, wheatiefan. You're proving that it doesn't take $hundreds invested to come up with excellent images.
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JJHFL's Avatar
United States
395 Posts
 Posted 09/02/2013  11:55 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JJHFL to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I do like the DIY threads as in this instance I want a copy stand, but have a hard time parting with the $ instead of using it for coins :)
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JJHFL's Avatar
United States
395 Posts
 Posted 09/02/2013  11:55 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JJHFL to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I do like the DIY threads as in this instance I want a copy stand, but have a hard time parting with the $ instead of using it for coins :)
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 Posted 09/02/2013  11:58 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add rmpsrpms to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Nice setup and nice pics. I'm particularly pleased to see that you can fill a good portion of the sensor with the coin, such that you are able to downsize the image significantly for web viewing. Also, you have a very decent working distance to get lights in. These are reasons I went the DSLR route, but it seems your P&S does the trick. What is the working distance between coin and camera in your setup? Regarding the photos, I'm especially happy to see your comparison of direct vs diffused lighting. You've shown the extremes of the range nicely.

I'm curious if anyone has made a list of P&S cameras such as this one which are truly suitable for coin pics, ie which have sufficient working distance while still being able to fill the frame (or nearly fill it) with the coin. SD?

Ahh...forgot to ask...what size coin is that? What happens with smaller coins with this setup, are you able to keep a good proportion of the frame filled?
Contact me for photographic equipment or visit my home page at:
http://macrocoins.com
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Wiggam007's Avatar
United States
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 Posted 09/02/2013  12:46 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Wiggam007 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Very cool DIY set up!
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wheatiefan's Avatar
United States
507 Posts
 Posted 09/03/2013  8:54 pm  Show Profile   Check wheatiefan's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add wheatiefan to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I am glad to see my setup was well received.
I hope others will try to build setups that work for them.

Like we've said before, a few simple things can greatly improve your images. Learn your camera settings, steady the camera, use a timer, use consistent lighting (not the flash), etc. . .

Most of my coins are 'junk' with a value of less than $0.50, which is why I find it hard to justify spending so much on a new camera.
In my case I had the camera, plywood, screws, and jug. The only additional costs were $2 for the hardware and $4 for felt.

I was surprised to find that the standard camera threads are the same that you can find at every hardware/walmart/grocery store. I think they are standard 1/4" 20tpi. I would have thought they were a special hard to find size. Once you have the mounting hardware the next step is building a stand.

The milkjug does its job. I'd like to have some diffusers that clip onto the jansjo lights but am too lazy to come up with any alternatives.

The threaded rod has a plastic insert at the top. I think it was to cushion electric wires. It doesn't show up too well in the pictures. But this protects the coin from metal-on-metal contact.
I kinda like the hollow rod, as it helps when taking pix of coins with holes in the center. This is not a concern for USA-only collectors. Here is a holed coin from my previous setup. There I used a plastic drywall anchor. I would have to spend time editing out the plastic showing in the center. Now with the hollow threaded rod that is not necessary.
My-Cheap-Point-And-Shoot-Setup

The lens is approximately 6.5-7 inches from the coin.
This is with the camera zoomed-in 90-100%, allowing room for lights. I usually zoom in 100% then have to back up a little.
If I get any closer, the auto-focus doesn't work. So although I could put the coin 3 or 5 inches away, I'd have to zoom in less, making for the same ultimate size.

The Queen Victoria coin is a penny, at 31mm. The Vitt Em III (an Italian 2 Lire) coin is slightly smaller at 29mm.

The total image size off the camera is roughly 1700x2300 pixels. Silver dollars come out ~1400-1500 pixels across, which I consider 'filling the sensor'. But with smaller coins the image size goes down. Half dollar sized coins are 1200ish pixels, and the smallest (smaller than a dime) coins are maybe 700ish pixels. Good enough for sharing on the web or ebay, but definitely not filling the sensor.

I think my camera takes acceptable pictures. I remember reading a thread by SsDd where he said he tested another CCF member's camera at a coin show and was impressed at the images. IIRC, that camera was also a point-and-shoot Olympus.
I once borrowed a newer 14-16 megapixel Sony camera, assuming it would take similar quality pictures but with higher resolution. I was disappointed.
So between my experience and SsDd's comments maybe we can place the early-2000s Olympus point-and-shoots in the 'good enough' category.

I do have some complaints. The timer is set at 10 seconds and not adjustable. This means at top speed I can image the front and back of less than 3 coins a minute. Keep in mind that I may have dozens or 100s to take at a time. Also I have to constantly change the rechargable batteries, which means I have to reprogram all the settings. I can't see the images until transferring them to the computer. So the more I read about the tethering and live-view cameras the better they sound.

Like I said I'm imaging most of my collection, mostly for my personal use but maybe for sharing on the web.
For now I save the cropped, full size, 100% quality, jpegs on my hard drive. These are roughly 1mb in size. I keep backups on google drive which is free up to 5GB. If I intend on sharing them I downsize them to 800-1000pixels and 100-300kb each.

I wonder if in a few years I will be disappointed in 800-1200 pixel jpegs, just like we now look at small GIF images as outdated. I guess time will tell.

-wheatiefan
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
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23522 Posts
 Posted 09/03/2013  9:52 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I haven't done any real specific research on the topic, nothing satisfying any kind of academic rigor. It's been my general impression, though, that your best bet for a cheap point-and-shoot for coins is going to be older than newer. With the ever-increasing zoom ranges and megapixel counts, these little sensors and lenses are being pushed to ever-greater compromises which show up first in macro photography.

All of the earlier P&S's I owned would turn out decent coin images: Canon A60, Minolta Z2, Canon S2-IS. The last one which worked in a fashion I considered satisfactory for coins was my 2008-era Canon A720.

Almost every newer P&S is going to have a macro focus range which would allow you to almost fill the sensor with a coin. The trouble is (as Ray mentions), sensor fill reduces with working distance, and nothing really offers working distances over 100mm with appreciable sensor coverage. All you can do is live with the distance that gets you an acceptable original size on the sensor - I personally define that as about 1200px diameter for a Morgan-sized coin, and anything smaller is proportionally less on the sensor - and figure out lighting to match.
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DVCollector's Avatar
United States
10045 Posts
 Posted 09/03/2013  11:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DVCollector to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Very nice results! A lot of p/s cameras have good macro capabilities.
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clearsig's Avatar
United States
24 Posts
 Posted 09/04/2013  8:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add clearsig to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Wheatiefan, this is a fascinating and very useful post! Congratulations on all the creative effort you've put into thinking out your setup, and thanks for taking the trouble to explain it in such a readable and interesting way.

I have a home made setup that simply uses a Canon Powershot A630 with adjustable angle monitor (still available on ebay for $60 or less) and a mini tripod bought at a yard sale, plus two desk lamps. The resulting photos have proved sufficient for my needs, but after studying your methods I'm inspired to continue seeking improvements. Excelsior!


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