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Canadian Sovereign Coins

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moejaber's Avatar
Canada
147 Posts
 Posted 10/06/2013  4:03 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add moejaber to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Hello!

I've always been in-love with sovereigns,something about BP St George slaying the dragon attracts me. I grew up back in Lebanon with this coin being an integral part of our celebrations and to people over there it is the only "real" gold coin.

Now that I am interested in Canadian coins I came across the question on whether these coins are Canadian Sovereigns or simply British Sovereigns minted in Canada? is it part of Canada's coin series or not?

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canadtech's Avatar
Canada
84 Posts
 Posted 10/06/2013  4:36 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add canadtech to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here's a site with all the info on sovereigns.
http://www.goldsovereigns.co.uk/min...ntmarks.html
canadian ones will have a c mintmark.
Valued Member
moejaber's Avatar
Canada
147 Posts
 Posted 10/06/2013  4:58 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add moejaber to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
thanks for the site. I know all there is to know about sovereigns,mint marks and all different reverses and observes. My question is whether sovereign with the C mint mark can be considered part of Canada's coinage or not.
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canadtech's Avatar
Canada
84 Posts
 Posted 10/06/2013  5:16 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add canadtech to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
hmm, not sure but I suspect that yes they would be.
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kuh_85's Avatar
Canada
2366 Posts
 Posted 10/06/2013  6:47 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add kuh_85 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
They are included in a section of Charlton Vol 1 so I'm inclined to say yes but I can see how it's open to debate.
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Canada
9864 Posts
 Posted 10/06/2013  7:06 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DBM to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I don't believe they circulated here,but banks used them (as well as US gold) to legally back their note issues.
"Dipping" is not considered cleaning...
-from PCGS website
Valued Member
Canada
496 Posts
 Posted 10/06/2013  7:07 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add billfrak to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I think they were never meant to circulate in Canada,just made here
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noahs-numismatics's Avatar
Canada
3167 Posts
 Posted 10/06/2013  8:02 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add noahs-numismatics to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yes, those sovereigns are debated by many as to whether or not they classify under Canadian coinage, British coinage, or both.

They were minted here for use across the pond, but the C mintmark makes some think of them as Canadian coinage.

IMHO, they are British coinage. You don't see the British including all of the Canadian coins with an H mint mark in their sets and books, just because they were made in Britain.

I can say this because I'm Canadian, but I guess we can be pretty proud sometimes, eh?

That's just my opinion, and you are entitled to think whatever you want. In the end, they are very attractive coins.
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trout1105's Avatar
Australia
7096 Posts
 Posted 10/06/2013  8:19 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add trout1105 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
We have "S" and "M" mintmark sovereigns in Australia minted at Melbourne and Sydney, we also have "P" mint marked coins as well.
These ARE considered Australian coins here, especially the early Victorian Wreath and Shield coins .



Canadian-Sovereign-Coins

Canadian-Sovereign-Coins

Canadian-Sovereign-Coins

Canadian-Sovereign-Coins
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sel_69l's Avatar
Australia
21786 Posts
 Posted 10/07/2013  01:31 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The Sydney Mint Sovereign (and it's half) are probably the only coins in the world in any metal, where the whole reverse design is a mint mark.

The obverse is very similar to the Victorian coins of Newfoundland, but in the case of the Sydney mint coins, Vikkie wears a garland of Australian native Banksia leaves.
They are both L.C. Wyon designs.

In the case of the Australian sovereigns, they were used to make overseas payments, principally to India. The half sovereigns circulated, and as a result are rare in MS grades.

I guess that the Canadian sovereigns were also used for overseas payments, or as a backing to the note issue, and did not circulate. If that is the case, it would follow that Canadian sovereigns would be scarcer in lower grades, and easier to find in EF or better.
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Canada
617 Posts
 Posted 10/07/2013  02:09 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add EastVanRob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Let's just say that the matter is still unsettled after a century.
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Sap's Avatar
Australia
16826 Posts
 Posted 10/07/2013  02:14 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Now that I am interested in Canadian coins I came across the question on whether these coins are Canadian Sovereigns or simply British Sovereigns minted in Canada?

I believe the answer to your question is, "yes". They are considered both.

They are considered part of the Canadian series, in that they are listed in the Canadian coin catalogues. They are also listed in the Krause world coin catalogues under "Canada" rather than "Great Britain", just as the Australian, Indian and South African sovereigns are listed under their country of mintage; only London Mint sovereigns are listed under Great Britain.

However, they are also firmly considered, by collectors in Britain especially, to be part of the British coin series. As such, they are listed in the Spink catalogue of British coins, alongside the London and other colonial-minted coins. By comparison, British Trade Dollars, minted in India for use in China and Southeast Asia, are not listed in Spink, even though those are listed under "Great Britain" in the Krause catalogues.

Sovereigns - not just Canadian ones, but any sovereigns from any mint in the Empire - were legal tender in Canada, with an official face value of $4.86 and 2/3 of a cent. As far as I can tell, they did not circulate very much between individual people - the odd fractional face value would have been awkward to make change for - but sovereigns would likely have "circulated" between the banks, government and major businesses if payment in gold was deemed necessary. Thirty sovereigns made exactly $146.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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trout1105's Avatar
Australia
7096 Posts
 Posted 10/07/2013  06:59 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add trout1105 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Thirty sovereigns made exactly $146.

Sounds like a fair deal. i'll take 3000 of them at that price
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moejaber's Avatar
Canada
147 Posts
 Posted 10/07/2013  8:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add moejaber to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank a lot Sap!

Very informative.I guess i'll just consider them as Canadian since Canada was part of the Empire at that time and they were minted from Canadian gold on Canadian soil!

really appreciate all the info!
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Libertad's Avatar
Canada
3692 Posts
 Posted 10/09/2013  12:42 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Libertad to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It's even debatable when Canada finally cut the umbilical cord. Was it 1935, or 1982, or are we still coming of age? I feel a lot of times the UK holds our hand with certain issues. Anyways, I do consider those sovereigns to be Canadian. However, the design didn't originate in Canada. I think that if they were made in Ottawa it would denote that Canada was already becoming a nation, long abandoning York as its capital.

Re: entire side as a mintmark: Interesting point. I've never seen that before.

As usual, Sel and Sap to the rescue.
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giorgio11's Avatar
United States
406 Posts
 Posted 10/17/2013  07:11 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add giorgio11 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I collect and sell Canadian coins and certainly consider the C-mintmarked sovereigns to be part of the Canadian series. I even have a rare 1913-C sovereign in MS63 PCGS, one of the keys to the series (second to the 1916-C). Nonetheless they are curiosities in that they use the British currency system while at the same time Canada was issuing five and ten dollar gold coins using the decimal (U.S.) system.

Good luck with your collecting. Personally I love the Jubilee Head sovereigns and the Shield Backs as well.

Best Regards,

George
VDB Coins
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